tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post5770136356575207754..comments2023-11-02T08:41:44.231-07:00Comments on The Sanctuary: Circumcision - good or bad?Spacetravellerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-26192652575030609322021-03-10T21:13:51.048-08:002021-03-10T21:13:51.048-08:00Wow, excellent post. I'd like to draft like th...Wow, excellent post. I'd like to draft like this too - taking time and extremely hard work to make a great article. Visit <a href="https://www.religionsvsscience.com/2020/08/circumcision-and-religious-concepts.html" rel="nofollow"><b>benefits of male circumcision to a woman</b></a>. This post has inspired me to write some posts that I am going to write soon.religionsvssciencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11759855838941974622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-89401893378835178522012-05-15T23:59:36.425-07:002012-05-15T23:59:36.425-07:00@ Hugh Intactive,
Welcome to The Sanctuary!
Wow,...@ Hugh Intactive,<br /><br />Welcome to The Sanctuary!<br /><br />Wow, what a wealth of information on your website.<br />Thank you very much for that and also for your useful information-filled comment.<br />Despite being Catholic, I had never come across all those documents you cited.<br />Shame on me :-)<br /><br />Now I saw other forms of mutilation on your site I haven't even heard of that have me retching with disgust.<br /><i> Breast ironing? </i> <br />Please tell me that's not what I think it is...<br /><br />Now I truly get it when people say they are scared of life.<br />Some things are just way too scary for comfort.Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-73508412056555224442012-05-15T21:18:10.742-07:002012-05-15T21:18:10.742-07:00Catholic Catechism (Item 2297: Respect for bodily ...Catholic Catechism (Item 2297: Respect for bodily integrity) <br />“… Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.”<br /><br />Pope Benedict XIV (1740-58) decreed that<br />“…the amputation of any part of the human body is never legal, except when the entire body cannot be saved from destruction by any other method.”<br /><br />Pope Pius XII said<br />“From a moral point of view, circumcision is permissible if, in accordance with therapeutic principles, it prevents a disease that cannot be countered in any other way ”<br /><br />Pope Benedict XVI said<br />"it is not circumcision that saves"<br />and<br />"the Apostles with the Elders decided to discontinue the practice of circumcision so that it was no longer a feature of the Christian identity ... It was only in this way that, in the end, they officially made possible the Church of the Gentiles, a Church without circumcision"<br /><br />You are right to be skeptical about the claim about Jewish women and cervical cancer. That link proved to be genetic. Other links are more likely to be geographic: one much-cited metastudy pooled people in five different countries when there was no correlation in any country on its own. The only country in which many of the men were circumcised was the Philippines, so any of the many demographic differences between the Philippines and the other countries (such as fewer women smoking) could be the real reason.Hugh Intactivehttp://www.circumstitions.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-24745005723376416882012-05-14T02:39:44.278-07:002012-05-14T02:39:44.278-07:00@ CD,
I couldn't agree with you more.
Interes...@ CD,<br /><br />I couldn't agree with you more.<br />Interestingly, you and I arrive at this conclusion from diametrically oppposite (initial) view-points:<br /><br /><i> "It was a huge shock to me when I found out, as an adult, that this practice is so common. I honestly thought it was only done by Jewish people." </i> <br /><br />In contrast to you, I was shocked to realise that there are lots of <i> intact </i> men out there. Because virtually every man in my own entourage is circumcised.<br />And <i> not </i> to be circumcised was to belong to the great unwashed, so to speak. I grew up with this notion.<br />So to find that not being circumcised was 'normal' was an actual shock to me.<br />And looking back, some of the boys at school who were bullied were picked on (by circumcised boys) for this reason. Because they 'looked different'.<br />And I ain't even Jewish :-)<br /><br />But after all the comments I have received on this post I honestly for the life of me can't think why this is practised anymore.<br /><br />You are certainly right - it is a very important thing to think about before having children.<br /><br /><i> "Anonymous, some women get labioplasty because they think they're not pretty enough down there, so there is an equivalent even in Western cultures. It's certainly horrific." </i> <br /><br />The difference here being that labioplasty is not 'institutionalised', at least I never heard of masses of women having this under some sort of government directive.<br />Nor is it done at birth or in infancy when the woman has no choice in the matter.<br /><br />But I agree with you that in many worse it is worse than the institutionalised male circumcision. For a voluntary labioplasty is a voluntary self-mutilation.<br />Even if the woman is 'forced' into it by a man or men, it is still voluntary, as in the case of the 28 year old man NC describes above.<br /><br />Sad in many ways, as some poor women actually go through this involuntarily like the model I mentioned...<br />Sure, a labioplasty is not as 'complete' as what is practised in Somalia, (thank God) but the idea is the same in that it removes essential parts of the female sexual apparatus.Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-4512619744184313972012-05-13T15:47:40.229-07:002012-05-13T15:47:40.229-07:00I think this is an important topic for any woman c...I think this is an important topic for any woman considering having children to think about. (Men, too, obviously, but they'd be more likely to already have an opinion on it one way or the other.) It was a huge shock to me when I found out, as an adult, that this practice is so common. I honestly thought it was only done by Jewish people. <br /><br />I think I'm against it. The arguments for why it is wrong and barbaric are much more compelling than the weak claims that getting it done "looks better" and "is cleaner." Should people get their toenails removed so they never get ingrown toenails? Obviously not.<br /><br />On the other hand, people get painful and expensive dental work done in order to have pretty teeth. I had four perfectly healthy teeth pulled for that reason, and had been really unhappy with how my teeth looked before that. Sometimes looking different from others can be an unnecessary burden to place on a child.<br /><br />It must be a difficult decision to make.<br /><br />Anonymous, some women get labioplasty because they think they're not pretty enough down there, so there is an equivalent even in Western cultures. It's certainly horrific.Charming Disarrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481799867576915560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-18663594332015322892012-05-09T11:31:36.836-07:002012-05-09T11:31:36.836-07:00NC,
Oops sorry!
I can't think why I thought ...NC,<br /><br />Oops sorry!<br /><br />I can't think why I thought that was you!<br /><br />Apologies to 'Anonymous' too.<br /><br />NC,<br /><br />This story you tell makes me cringe. For reasons I cannot share.<br />How glad am I that I penned this post...<br /><br />Thanks as always for your titbits :-)Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-74753058409821592622012-05-09T11:23:46.667-07:002012-05-09T11:23:46.667-07:00Although the comment at 11:47 AM on 7 May was not ...Although the comment at 11:47 AM on 7 May was not me, I cannot disagree with the comments made by that person.<br /><br />I knew a guy who got circumcised when he was 28, in order to marry his fiance. They divorced ten years later, and he swears the worst part about the divorce was the circumcision just to get married.<br /><br />Love isn't just blind, sometimes it's stupid as can be.<br /><br />The Navy CorpsmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-72002104864176515072012-05-07T12:14:51.757-07:002012-05-07T12:14:51.757-07:00@ NC,
"Some men feel better circumcised bec...@ NC,<br /><br /><i> "Some men feel better circumcised because they are told that women will not want to have sex with them otherwise." </i> <br /><br />And the same people who are telling men this, are also telling women not to marry (or have sex with) uncircumcised men.<br /><br />I think we have unearthed a conspiracy!Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-80376458268389844602012-05-07T11:47:27.848-07:002012-05-07T11:47:27.848-07:00I consider circumcision to be a barbaric practice....I consider circumcision to be a barbaric practice. This isn't what I mean when I say it but it's also a barbaric practice in the most traditional sense of the word. For the Hellenes and Romans circumcision was something that only barbarians did. It is a superstition of desert dwelling primitives that has survived into modern times and was adopted by the medical community to stop baby boys from touching their penises. Burning the clitorises of baby girls with carbolic acid was proposed but that didn't catch on for some reason.<br /><br />Anyway, I see it as mostly being a blood rite for initiating boys into pain and violence. Like the Huns cutting the faces of boys so they would look scary with scars and not grow a beard. If that was still happening people might try to justify it by saying that it's more hygienic too.<br /><br />I am intact. I've never had any problems with my foreskin. As for hygiene, the foreskin is attached to the glans in early childhood I think. You aren't supposed to pull it back then. And later it's still easier to keep clean than a vulva. You just can't be a lazy parent and make sure your boys actually wash themselves instead of going, "oh they are boys, they don't need to wash!" Just wash your dick once a day. That's all it requires.<br /><br />Even as a child it bothered me that apparently girls are born perfect but boys need to have their genitals cut. Especially since it wasn't done to me and it's never been an actual problem. It's completely unnecessary. No pediatric organisation supports it.<br /><br />Some men feel better circumcised because they are told that women will not want to have sex with them otherwise. This means that people are performing cosmetic procedures on the genitals of their perfectly normal, healthy baby boys. That is downright perverted. This is a cultural thing. For me at least, I don't care if a woman wants me to cut off my foreskin she can cut off her clitoral prepuce first. Then I'll listen. Because that is the analogue. FGM and circumcision are the same thing. They only differ in severity. In FGM the amputation is much more severe. But nobody would ever support a parent having only their baby daughter's clitoral prepuce cut off for cultural reasons. It's considered just as evil as complete infibulation.<br /><br />Wash your penis occasionally and wear a God damned condom when you hook up. Get the Gardasil vaccine. There! You've made amputating 25 square inches of healthy, functional tissue from the most sensitive part of your body completely unnecessary. And it is functional tissue. Apart from containing extremely sensitive nerve tissue it prevents keratinization of the glans. <br /><br />Circumcision is barbaric and a completely unnecessary cosmetic operation that is done to little boys for ignorant cultural reasons, to appease a perverted God and to put money into the pockets of doctors and the cosmetics and pharmaceutical companies that use foreskins as raw material for their products. It is bad thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-16132818976768113932012-05-07T10:43:01.062-07:002012-05-07T10:43:01.062-07:00Welcome to The Sanctuary, Eradica!
I don't un...Welcome to The Sanctuary, Eradica!<br /><br />I don't understand your comment very well.<br />Do you mean you <i> are </i> circumcised and hope it's OK, or that you are <i> not </i> circumcised but it's too late?<br /><br />If it's the former and it's a problem, according to Tally, it is reversible...Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-12418126366736145082012-05-07T08:42:09.281-07:002012-05-07T08:42:09.281-07:00being circed BETTER BE ok - it's too late for ...being circed BETTER BE ok - it's too late for me nowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-22976228046315789322012-05-07T04:14:21.967-07:002012-05-07T04:14:21.967-07:00@ NC,
Having been properly educated on this matte...@ NC,<br /><br />Having been properly educated on this matter now, I agree entirely with you.<br /><br />None of my future sons will be getting 'the snip'.Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-24204351056952948032012-05-06T12:33:09.738-07:002012-05-06T12:33:09.738-07:00I'm intact, as are my sons, and I consider the...I'm intact, as are my sons, and I consider the practice to be a mutilation on par with female genital mutilation, regardless of religious significance.<br /><br />Some females get real upset when you compare the two mutilations, saying that there is no real comparison. I'll not argue that there is a difference in the tissue removed, only that both are mutilations that have no basis in medical science. Even the science behind the claims that circumcision helps prevent the spread of HIV has been shown to be very bad. <br /><br />I don't really care what religion any person espouses, justification for any kind of mutilation without the permission of the person being mutilated is not possible, in my view. There is a tribe in New Guinea that performs a ritual scarification with razor blades to create on the skin of a young male a pattern, so that the skin resembles the scaly hide of a crocodile, during the rites of passage to becoming a man. From what I have read, this is a voluntary procedure, but that nearly all young males still undergo this rite. It's a tribal thing, and not unlike the original Abrahamic covenant, a sort of self-identification as part of the Hebrew tribes. <br /><br />To me, this is simply unacceptable. The foreskin is what males are born with, and I cannot countenance mutilation of either gender as children, for any reason. <br /><br />I wonder sometimes if a religion popped up that demanded that the face of children be ritually bathed in sulfuric acid in order to become adults in this new belief system, how would the rest of the world view such a religion? Would this be allowed as free exercise of religion, or a violation of human rights?<br /><br />The Navy CorpsmanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-46594309327144532612012-05-06T01:30:21.610-07:002012-05-06T01:30:21.610-07:00@ Tally,
Welcome to The Sanctuary!
Wow, I am SO ...@ Tally,<br /><br />Welcome to The Sanctuary!<br /><br />Wow, I am SO glad you commented.<br />Because you are that perfect 'control subject' I was looking for.<br /><br />Thank you for sharing what is undoubtedly such a private matter for you.<br /><br />I must say, although I posted this in the guise of seeking advice as to what to do with any future sons I might have, I have to admit that I was also 'conditioned' to seek a man who is circumcised.<br />Why?<br />Because I had this weird idea that an uncircumcised man was somehow 'unclean' in some way. Although I am not Jewish, I have harboured this view in an almost religious light.<br /><br />And yet Beliita points out that Catholicism does not necessarily advocate this.<br /><br />What a disaster ignorance can be!<br /><br />So, I have certainly learnt my lesson.<br /><br />It seems to me the only possible potential drawback to circmcision is one that can be very easily dealt with, as Danny and JV inform us - in, as it happens, very different styles of expression LOL.<br /><br />Why does it feel so much like I've got a monkey off my back?<br /><br />This is great.<br />Thanks everyone.Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-85368592931464657782012-05-05T20:37:36.311-07:002012-05-05T20:37:36.311-07:00I was circumcised at birth. I also am restoring my...I was circumcised at birth. I also am restoring my foreskin. The difference is amazing. I never knew what I lost. Not that I have a restored foreskin I know the difference. The foreskin protects the sensitive, inner parts of the penis. Circumcision removes that protection and those sensitive bits grow calloused from constant rubbing against clothing. The foreskin provides the gliding action that makes sex enjoyable for everyone. Circumcision oftentimes can be described as sex with a broomstick (that was my case because I had a tight circumcision).<br /><br />After restoring, my wife no longer got sore from sex. And we do not need to use lube like we had to before I started restoring. If more people knew the harm of circumcision, the practice would stop.Tallyhttp://www.restoringforeskin.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-38445942059379065612012-05-05T07:37:01.378-07:002012-05-05T07:37:01.378-07:00@ Danny,
:-)
@ Bellita,
I have just remembered ...@ Danny,<br /><br />:-)<br /><br />@ Bellita,<br /><br />I have just remembered that model's name!<br />It is Waris Dirie and here is the Reader's Digest article you mentioned...<br /><br />http://www.fgmnetwork.org/articles/Waris.htmlSpacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-84052169121000473752012-05-05T06:07:03.385-07:002012-05-05T06:07:03.385-07:00ST-
Welcome to the Danny show.ST- <br />Welcome to the Danny show.dannyfrom504https://www.blogger.com/profile/15213546987325424741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-90896414434716565802012-05-05T01:47:01.045-07:002012-05-05T01:47:01.045-07:00@ Danny,
"i think i'll just teach him t...@ Danny,<br /><br /><i> "i think i'll just teach him to wash his dick thorougly instead." </i> <br /><br />Somehow Danny, you always manage to make me laugh when I least expect it.<br />:-)<br /><br />@ BeijaFlor,<br /><br />The difficulties you mention - were those in a circumcised man or an uncircumcised man?<br /><br />I loved how you linked to this post LOL. And I think you picked the right pic too :-)<br /><br />@ Bell,<br /><br />Ah, JV also mentioned that Jewish circumcision is less 'complete' than present-day hospital ones.<br /><br />I have heard of some botched circumcisions, by the way. In one case the surgeon was drunk and cut off more than he should have. (All the nurses and even the anesthetist noticed he was drunk as soon as he staggered into the operating room, and tried to stop him but to no avail).<br />I hate to think what that entails for the victim...who was an infant...<br /><br />Is your friend Jewish? If she had gone through with the circumcision would it have been performed by a rabbi or at hospital?<br /><br />Somehow the whole 'at home' procedure thing done by even an experienced rabbi terrifies the living daylights out of me. Precisely because of the potential for serious blood loss in an environment which is not equipped to deal with a medical emergency.<br /><br />Somehow that would scare me more, yes. More than the circumcision per se.<br /><br />Also, if Jewish circumcision leaves behind some or most of the foreskin, then the circumcision itself may not be the reason there is a lower rate of cervical cancer among Jewish women?<br />There has to be another variable at play, for example, my theory that the sample population perhaps just contained women who were less likely to be promiscuous anyway, a known risk factor for cervical cancer.<br /><br />Sometimes so-called scientific data is woefully misleading...<br /><br />If circumcision is to be performed as an 'infection control procedure', then it should be 'complete'.<br />But that by all accounts is worse for the man concerned. As his 'sensation' may become affected.<br /><br />By the way, I have heard of baby boys being born without a foreskin.<br /><br />In the Jewish community, these kids are held in high esteem :-)Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-58857092204263874972012-05-04T23:02:32.318-07:002012-05-04T23:02:32.318-07:00@ST
But, why was it so important in Judaism? Why ...@ST <br /><i>But, why was it so important in Judaism? Why would God want this? Should this be a rhetorical question?</i> <br /><br />As much as I would love to be able to answer this, my religious education never went that far. (Besides, after I learned the Catholic Church's teaching on it, I told myself there was nothing more I cared to know. Which was not very intellectually rigorous of me!) You'd have to ask a rabbi, I think. <br /><br />Or perhaps I could ask my friend who didn't want her sons circumcised. The topic came up just last night and it turns out she was against it before she was even married, and it was one of the bigger compromises her husband had to make. I do recall her mentioning that ancient Jewish circumcision was much less thorough than what we have today. In fact, if they had circumcised their boys in exactly the way we circumcise ours, their boys would have died from blood loss! <br /><br /><i>There is a famous model (I forget her name, but I think she was from Somalia or Ethiopia) who describes this very well in her book. She had major problems giving birth to her son. And it is really harrowing to hear her describe how she feels a failure because her husband knows he can never please her (in the bedroom).</i> <br /><br />I can't remember her name, either, but I read excerpted portions from her book in a <i>Reader's Digest</i>. What was done to her was truly horrible. And like rape, it has repercussions that extend throughout a victim's life.Bellitanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-51781807582971588302012-05-04T20:17:17.979-07:002012-05-04T20:17:17.979-07:00ST -
Thank you ever-so-much for examining this s...ST - <br /><br />Thank you ever-so-much for examining this subject in the way that you did. I was circumcised as an infant - so I can't ever know if sex with a foreskin is better than sex without. <br /><br />I have a former colleague who had "The Cut" made in adolescence ... probably for phimosis, because there is no other good reason I know for adolescent circumcision. I also had a LJBF "girlfriend" who told me of the difficulties of one of her lovers ... let's just call that "more information than I needed to know!!!"<br /><br />I hope you don't hate me for linking to this article, especially considering my own article from which I link to it ...BeijaFlorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06996048547599987043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-19070042514363789982012-05-04T16:58:20.347-07:002012-05-04T16:58:20.347-07:00i got snipped. so i had no say in the matter.
ho...i got snipped. so i had no say in the matter. <br /><br />however, shortly after joining the navy, i had to set up for and assist in a circumcicion. most barbaric procedure i'd ever seen and i told myself if i ever had a son i'd NEVER put him through it.<br />when the pulled the cords to remove the foreskin the baby let out this God-awful scream. i felt physically ill. <br /><br />i think i'll just teach him to wash his dick thorougly instead.dannyfrom504http://dannyfrom504.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-6968903159977590112012-05-04T16:50:46.037-07:002012-05-04T16:50:46.037-07:00@ JV,
Well, that was the last barrier down, then....@ JV,<br /><br />Well, that was the last barrier down, then.<br /><br />Circumcision is now out as far as I am concerned :-)<br /><br />But, why was it so important in Judaism? Why would God want this? Should this be a rhetorical question?Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-56391157130044597362012-05-04T16:45:28.347-07:002012-05-04T16:45:28.347-07:00@ST
Lol. It's easy to keep clean.@ST<br />Lol. It's easy to keep clean.just visitingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-49575543543358093842012-05-04T16:00:52.957-07:002012-05-04T16:00:52.957-07:00@ OTC,
I am sure there are some men who like bein...@ OTC,<br /><br />I am sure there are some men who like being circumcised...<br /><br />Who's to say your sons wouldn't turn out to be some of those men?<br />You never know...Spacetravellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202131232540121117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5312159882790612546.post-81081076571983276782012-05-04T15:53:07.293-07:002012-05-04T15:53:07.293-07:00I did it to my sons because I wanted them to look ...I did it to my sons because I wanted them to look "normal" and had not really thought it through. I really messed up.OffTheCuffnoreply@blogger.com