Saturday, August 18, 2012

Coping with unexpected crudity, and Game 1970s style

I wanted to expand on the topic of The Shock factor because it is a vast one which deserves a second mention.

Like female flirting, male irreverence is subject to 'the fine line'.

I think PUAs are aware of this and are careful to advise the brethren to retract if a woman is showing signs of distress or displeasure at something heinous he has just said.
The good guys know when to step back and not go over the line.
Those who do at work soon hear from Human Resources :-(

I am sure everyone already knows this but it is worth repeating here in this context. It is not that women are not equally irreverent.
Two factors collude to ensure that a woman will not show her irreverent side to all and sundry.
1. It really is about social conditioning. If there is a breakdown here, then a woman will feel comfortable turning the air blue.
2. Aside from that, there is also the 'public persona' thing. It depends who she considers 'public' or 'private'. To the 'private' guy, no holds barred. To the 'public' one, she just cannot 'let her hair down', unless factor 1 overrides this.

Anyway, I mentioned about how children love irreverence. Shortly after puberty, I think the genders head off in opposite directions as to their further education with respect to caorseness and crudity.
Before that, boys and girls are equally fascinated by the boundaries of decency, but I think boys are more willing to explore those boundaries somewhat :-)

I remember when I was in primary school (I must have been 9 or 10) there was a caretaker who was a really old man. He must have been much older than my grandparents. You could hear his bones creaking as he walked. This man was perhaps the most irreverent man I have ever met. Seriously.

He spoke a different language from most of us kids, and his favourite pastime was to teach some of us kids the more vulgar slang words of his language. We loved it.
I think some of my friends probably only came to school for his type of 'education' rather than anything else lol.
Once, I accidentally blurted out one of his 'unrepeatables' at home. My folks were horrified, but thankfully no-one made trouble for the old man.
I remember him fondly because of his unrestrained irreverence.
I am not suggesting it made me a better person or anything, but it certainly helped me to lighten up as an adult when I would be confronted with unexpected crudity.
To this end, that old man probably increased my threshold level for tolerance to 'the shock factor', something I find is quite useful to have.

A sense of humour in the face of unexpected crudity does well to diffuse a potentially serious situation.

In this video, Whitney Houston (RIP) does well to keep her composure when french actor Serge Gainsbourg unexpectedy crosses a social line on live TV.

This skill is admirable. It is a big part of feminine grace, I think.

It also accords one the right attitutude to hone for the thankfully rare event of adversity.

If I may digress, the British are generally reputed to have the best sense of humour in the face of adversity. It may of course not be at all related to the irreverence of British humour, but I like to link the two in my head, and my hamster approves :-)

Not to say I am an active participant in coarseness.
I still find the need to step away from 'the locker room' because it sometimes gets rather 'blue' in there.
But at least there are some things I can smile about.
I can drop the old 'b*tch shield' a little from time to, at least just a few times more than your average bible-bashing spinster auntie :-)

Below is a relatively 'clean' sketch from British comedian Benny Hill.
This poor hapless man doesn't seem to have much luck with the ladies.

Keeping it clean, how would the gentlemen here help him to inprove his Game?

Suggestions and explanations would be most welcome!

I realise that going back in time like this is odd. I am effectively asking the gentlemen here to advise their own grandpa, which is very different to advising your son.

Given that some of us may not even have been born in the 70s, and those who may have been, may have been too young to remember what the 70s were like, it is a bit of a dubious task.
But let's just have some fun with this.
If anyone can provide 'context' with their proposition/suggestion, great.
If not, no worries...


Anonymous said...

"The alternative comedian Ben Elton made a headline-grabbing allegation, both on the TV show Saturday Live and in the pages of Q magazine (in its January 1987 issue), that The Benny Hill Show was single-handedly responsible for the incidences of rape in England during the period in question, and also suggested the programme incited other acts of violence against women.[5] But a writer in The Independent newspaper opined that Elton's assault was "like watching an elderly uncle being kicked to death by young thugs".[6] Elton later claimed his comment was taken out of context, and he appeared in a parody for Harry Enfield and Chums, Benny Elton, where Elton ends up being chased by angry women, accompanied by the "Yakety Sax" theme, after trying to force them to be more feminist rather than letting them make their own decisions."

How would I advise Benny Hill's character? In the 70s, many many women wanted the 'sensitive caring man' or at least claimed they wanted one. Get him a polyester suit with wide lapels and a tie that can be used as a semaphore flag, as long as the suit fits and the fit suits. Lose the hat. Don't wait for women to approach you, but don't chase after them, either.

If they chase you, make sure someone with a saxophone is nearby.

The Navy Corpsman

Anonymous said...

PVW here...I think this broadcast could have been the early 1990s; the fashions don't look to be from the 1970s....The same with the Whitney Houston broadcast, I'd estimate early 1990s, late 1980s at the earliest.

As for the Whitney broadcast, that guy was such a drunk masher! Ugh...but she handled it well...

dannyfrom504 said...

i'm pretty sure benny hill was quite popular with that ladies. the skit is just a comedy bit.

i LIVE to push people's buttons. surprise surprise.

Spacetraveller said...

@ NC,

I don't know why that piece with the saxophone is so funny, but it just is. And it goes very well with comedy pieces too!

@ PVW,

Ah, you are right! I got the decade wrong. Not sure why I thought it must have come from the 70s...
Whitney Houston pre Bobby Brown was a very classy lady. I used to admire her. I couldn't believe the changes in her after she married him. What a shame. But I think she recovered her old self a bit before she died. That's something to be thankful for.

Yes, Serge Gainsbourg rather disgraced himself on that show. Even leaving aside what he said (which was crude enough), I found the touching/stroking offensive in of itself. Whitney Houston REALLY did well to keep her composure...she was indeed very graceful. She accepted his apology in a very lady-like manner at the end of the clip, for example. But I think she was rather shocked at the beginning, as I would have been...
The host of the show repeatedly apologises to the audience, and at one point even mutters to himself: 'What on Earth possessed me to invite Serge Gainsbourg to my show?'
And he seems to be know Gainsbourg well, because he keeps saying to the audinece, 'This is how he is'...

Now what if Houston had reacted in the more expected way, i.e. with anger/dramatic exit from the show etc...
I would have found it regrettable, (not that I would necessarily blame her) because Gainsbourg would no longer be the bad guy...

I find that feminine 'grace' in dealing with male crudity is a very lost art...BUT, is this because women are just as crude as men these days? I dunno.
How nice if this lost art were to make a comeback...
I'd so sign up for that :-)

Leap of a Beta said...

Yeah, it's definitely a lost art. Most women try and keep up with it in an attempt to be 'one of the boys.' They don't get that just by having a female present, any male group dynamics shift drastically, even if none of them are attracted to her (which is rare).

All she does is look less and less like a woman of worth and more and more like an easy lay. Or the rare case of her friendzoning herself with guys.

Grasshopper said...

Benny dude - dress better. For one thing find a jacket that fits.

Instead of standing in the middle of the street trying to meet total strangers, get involved in a social group – such as a church or some other social organization you believe in (save the wales maybe or whatever). Meet women with a common interest that way.

The group’s acceptance and appreciation of you will speak volumes to women. They call it validation I think and that is a big deal to a lot of women. No validation is going to happen in the middle of the street with total strangers.

You’re aiming too high for such a klutz with women. Consider the less attractive woman, the one not dressed so strikingly or trying to draw attention to herself.

The beautiful attention grabbing women draw a lot of interest and you’ll have a lot of competition. Competition is not a good thing at this point for you buddy.

Consider also the time and effort you’ll have to invest pursuing women and what you might get in return. Is the reward worth the effort? Only you can answer that for yourself.

Many men do not think so and have gone their own way. Something to consider.


Spacetraveller said...

"Most women try and keep up with it in an attempt to be 'one of the boys.' They don't get that just by having a female present, any male group dynamics shift drastically..."

Ah Leap!

I think you are onto something here. Would you care to elaborate?
How does the male group dynamic change when there is a female present?
I am not sure I understand this phenomenon very well.
Does this apply in the workplace for example?
A woman who is not 'one of the boys' appears at first glance to be 'shunned', in my experience. It is only with looking deeper that one finds she is not being shunned at all....
Au contraire...


Thanks for your advice to our friend Benny Hill!
Hilarious, the first piece of advice.
Yes good grooming applies to men too ;)
But do you think there is a double standard here? Whilst women need to keep up with their grooming skills throughout their lives to keep a man they have already attracted, (beecause men are visual), men only need show up with good-fitting clothes to the first date. And after that, he's off the hook...
But he better have a good job lol.

Spacetraveller said...


"i'm pretty sure benny hill was quite popular with that ladies."

Surprisingly not! If you read his Wikipedia page it says in there that he proposed to 3 different women, and all turned him down...
So he never married.
So in many ways, he may have been a MGHOW but not out of choice.
I think this is so sad.
He was found dead in front of the TV, having had a coronary...

And this was a famous comedian, not short of a bob or two.
I wonder why he never made a good enough impression on any woman that she would have accepted his proposal???

Grasshopper said...

@ST… “…I wonder why he (Benny Hill) never made a good enough impression on any woman that she would have accepted his proposal???...”

The guy is a performer. That is what he does for a living. How could he not make good enough impressions since that involves some degree of acting skill?

Maybe it was these women’s decision making processes that were not good enough? Maybe these women were just shallow, superficial, hypergamic, etc.

I don’t know the specifics about Benny – I’m just objecting to what seems to be a knee jerk assumption on most women’s part to blame any type of relationship failure on the man.

To your other question – no I don’t think men are off the hook dress code wise after the first date. I’ve never felt like I was.


dannyfrom504 said...

"He was found dead in front of the TV, having had a coronary..."

guess how i wanna die? lol.

Spacetraveller said...


I do see your point.
In particular, this:

"I’m just objecting to what seems to be a knee jerk assumption on most women’s part to blame any type of relationship failure on the man."

Sure, I agree with you that this happens more than we think.
It is only in the last year or so that I realised that the popular view that 'it's all the man's fault' is actually a very modern (read feminist-encouraged) phenomenon to encourage women to be 'wayward' if I may use a potentially inflammatory word against my own gender. What I mean by this is that it encourages women to 'walk' from marriages much more easily than women of previous ages, thus breaking up marriages easier. It dawned on me that this is all part of that masterplan of feminism/marxism that is taking hold of our current world. In addition, women are much more likely to be vocal about their relationship issues anyway, so compound that with men staying 'shtumm' on this subject and you have the situation I describe in my post 'The Quiet Man'. So everyone REALLY believes it is the man's fault. Even if in reality he is largely innocent...
Now some women, having fallen into this awful trap once in their life will regret their folly once they mature (like my friend who regrets her divorce, and now sees clearly the big part she played in the breakdown of her relationship with her now ex-husband, even though he was ostensibly the one at fault). A marriage is sacred. To break it without the very best of reasons would have repercussions for life, I would imagine. And I say that as someone who has never married. I hope my views get even more rigid about this if and when I do marry. If my views go the other way, i.e. more 'relaxed' about marriage, I guess I shouldn't be marrying!

Having said all that, I am going to take a major detour: when someone has a consistently bad record with the opposite sex, it is a good idea for them to stop looking at the opposite sex as the problem, and start looking at themselves...
Hill proposed to 3 women. He may have had relationships with other women which may not have gotten to the 'proposal' stage. They all turned him down. The common factor HAS to be Hill, no?
That's the angle at which I am coming from on this one. Perhaps it was something that could have been obvious to someone else close to him (eg. a friend, his brother, his female platonic friends). If only he had had such a person in his corner, perhaps he could have changed his destiny? Assuming he would have wanted to?
Um, am I 'projecting'?
Surely I am NOT the only one here who finds the fact that he died in front of the TV a very sad thing.
(Full disclosure: one of my aunts died this way. She was unmarried and childless. It made a major impression on me, as you can well imagine).

Spacetraveller said...

@ Danny,

Your comment does not surprise me in the least. And it doesn't surprise me in the least either that I could never make such a comment :-)

I actually think that a coronary is a good and quick way to go, yes. But it is still death. Final.
No coming back. To die alone has to be a necessary fear for women, otherwise we wouldn't be driven to form 'units' aka 'families'. We can't leave you men to be the driving force in this, because you guys have no fear of death. In this, you are just as hopeless to negotiate with as those kamikazi types lol.

A male friend made a similar joke about death over the weekend. He had a medical problem he told me about, and I asked if he had any serious symptoms from it. He joked that perhaps his first major symptom would be death...
And then went on to make a mock eulogy about how he was 'healthy right up until he died from ________'.
I didn't find it at all funny, as you can imagine. I could NEVER make a joke about my own death. Especially as a single woman.
If I ever believed it was 'bravardo' on the part of you men, I have been dissuaded from this belief in recent times...
I am now of the opinion that most of you men really think like this: 'Life is cool. I enjoy it while I can. If I die, I die'.
As a woman, I just can't think this way.
I wonder: do other women feel differently about this? Is this a function of 'where you are in your life-path', I wonder? I think I will always remain nervous about death until I have a (superlatively large) family lol.
You know, to leave no stone unturned. Making sure there would be at least one other human being present at my passing. Since it is unlikely that it would be 'The One', because, you know, I only get attracted to men older than me, and given that men die earlier than women anyway, it follows that my audience at the time of my final curtain call from the Earth would have to be of the next generation...
Now all I have to figure out is how to acquire creatures of this description. Anyone know?
Are there shops you can go to where you can get 'people of the next generation'?
I am a bit broke right now - are there 'special offers' available??


dannyfrom504 said...

i have no fear of death. i do fear a PAINFUL death. but when it's my time, it's my time.

i think the "dying alone" thing is largely a woman thing. but the fact is....

everyone dies alone. i think what women mean is they don't want to "get old" alone.

Spacetraveller said...


I think you are right. It's the fear of being alone and helpless in old age as well as being isolated. Even the ones like me who can tolerate long periods of solitude would hate that idea...

Grasshopper said...

@ST… “…The common factor HAS to be Hill, no?...”

Hill may have exercised poor judgment in selecting the women he did to propose to. I’ll accept that much.

Once you are past 30 (since we both fall into this category) all the available members of the opposite sex have failed at all prior relationships they’ve had. That is why they are available still. You can’t hold that against someone, can you?

At least 3 women (the ones he proposed to) validated him as being good steady boyfriend material. Likely there were more than just these 3. It does not sound like he had any trouble making a commitment given he proposed 3 times. He made good coin too as you pointed out.

Women complain long and loud about men not wanting to commit. Also about men not being motivated or making a good living. Can’t complain about Benny on these points, can you?

Women also want their pasts to be disregarded, and their minor faults to be over looked. Yet Benny’s past, favorable as I think it should seem to women, is apparently held against him?


Marellus said...

... A male friend made a similar joke about death over the weekend. He had a medical problem he told me about, and I asked if he had any serious symptoms from it. He joked that perhaps his first major symptom would be death...
And then went on to make a mock eulogy about how he was 'healthy right up until he died from ________'.

Black Humor.

Somewhere I've read that Black Humor is one of the most reliable omens ever. Watch this friend closely. His death might be exactly as his Black Humor foretold.

Spacetraveller said...


All fair points...

"Watch this friend closely. His death might be exactly as his Black Humor foretold."

This sent a chill up my spine.
Please don't say that. He's a very good friend!!! The thought of him EVER dying is not something I want to dwell on.

(I am neurotic enough - don't encourage me to start thinking lugubrious thoughts :-)

Anonymous said...

I don't think death is an issue that men and women think differently on; I think there is a veritable rainbow of opinions over the entire spectrum of human thought. I know many women who think, like myself, that death is just death, a mystery not to be feared, it is just the last mystery we encounter while we live.

Conversely, I know plenty of men who fear death, not from cowardice, but I'm not entirely certain why. Everyone has to go through that particular door, some accept it pragmatically, some fear the unknown, I guess.

Turning back to Benny Hill, remember that his proposals were most likely in the summer of his youth, being born in 1924. Assuming that Britain was not unlike the USA in the mid 1940s, movie stars were just becoming the cult of celebrity we know today... many women would have turned down Cary Grant or Errol Flynn, because acting was not a fully respectable profession in those days. At least, that's my theory. I've always been a fan of British humor, once the BBC shows began to show in the USA. Heck, I was 14 before I realized that Monty Python reruns in the USA weren't documentaries (told you I was slow).

Coping with crude behavior or joking is going to be a personal call, I feel. For myself, a clever joke with a hint of crude is forever funny, but a jump in the deep end, for shock value more than actual comedy, is just boorish. Music-hall comedy, like vaudeville comedy in the USA was an appeal to the working class, but the successful comedians made the transition to radio, then movies, then television. Bawdy is great, it appeals to nearly everyone regardless of class distinctions. Toilet humor is likewise universal, but some of us are still uncomfortable with women making jokes about menstruation.

Speaking of inappropriate, did you hear about the newborn baby boy who was born with no eyelids? Apparently, the doctor performed a circumcision and used the foreskin to make eyelids for the infant. The parents took one look and promptly sued the doctor.

Their baby was cockeyed.

The Navy Corpsman

just visiting said...

Yes, the act of dying is faced alone. But the journey toward it isn't. I'm not convinced that male hamsters aren't at work when men say that they won't care about being alone in their last days. Easy to say when you're young and strong. But I know of two men who used to say the same thing. One's already dead, the other dying. They recanted.

Spacetraveller said...



Unforgivable, you. lol.


My friend's view of death is: As soon as you are born, you are essentially waiting for death. Once you hit your 40s, which he has, you are on the fast track...
Talk about depressing. I could never think of life like that...
I get this fom a lot of men.
Maybe they are all joking, but somehow they have me convinced they mean what they say on this issue...
I hope you are right that deep down they are just as scared as I am about a lonely old age...
Maybe part of masculinity is NOT admitting such things to anyone, especially women?
If that's the case, gentlemen, your secret is safe with JV and me. We won't tell anyone...

Marellus said...

This sent a chill up my spine.
Please don't say that. He's a very good friend!!! The thought of him EVER dying is not something I want to dwell on.

(I am neurotic enough - don't encourage me to start thinking lugubrious thoughts :-)

Really ST ? Death comes to us all. Let me tell you something about myself :

I don't know WHEN I am going to die, but I do know WHERE I am going to die ...

... and that place is New York ...

... I know that I will die in New York ...

... simple isn't it ? ... No ST, it never is ... an English King was foretold that he would die in Jerusalem ... and the thing is, he never set foot in Jerusalem ...

.. yet he breathed his last breath in the Jerusalem Chamber of a hallowed church in London ...

... the same will happen to me ... because Death ... my dear ST ... has its own ironies ...

just visiting said...

@ ST
The men who I knew (Know) strongly believed what they said. And the sarcasm that was directed my way for even bringing it up....ouch. It wasn't until the reality of mortality was in it's final stages that they questioned their decisions. But by then, it was too late to undo or change certain things.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Marellus,

This reminds me of a (true) story my cousin told me years ago about a man who had once been told by a fortune teller that he would be killed by a plank of wood. All his life he avoided woods and forests.
When he was really old, he was sitting on a chair near a bookshelf. His grandson reached over to grab a book, and the (wooden) bookend fell on his head, killing him.

Marellus, I hope you don't live in New York...


Ah, yes I see. In this, JV, I think women have a clear advantage, although it makes our lives fraught with anxiety. We at least have a clear idea how painful a lonely old age can be, long before we get there, and spend our whole lives trying to prevent that. In may ways, women tend to live for the future, whilst men concentrate on 'today'. We are just different in this way. I guess the advantage men have is that they get to enjoy 'today' while the women are busy worrying. If a woman's anxiety prompts her to do the right thing for her future, she gets to reap the fruits of her 'labour'. Those who don't succeed, unfortunately get to have their worst nightmare realised. Which is sad, and I would never wish that on anyone...
The men you mention, JV....they may have faced reality at a time which was late in life, yes, but at least the 'worrying time' was short, compared to 'all their lives' as is the case with us women...

Anonymous said...

I rather enjoy being alone. I always have my family. But alone, in the woods....I'm quite content. I look forward to life after the Nav.

Marellus said...

... then come and kiss me ST ...

Anonymous said...

It's not a willingness to die... it's not an obsession over it, either.

It's an acceptance that death is the last act of the living. It's like the old joke:

Live well, eat healthy, exercise often, love madly, grow old and die anyway.

It's just recognition of facts. Pragmatism of the ultimate sort. None of the people I mentioned were looking for death, that's an entirely different subject. Masculinity has little to do with it, the attitude crosses gender lines, age, socio-economic status, an so on. Some people simply fear death, some people do not.

It's not how you die, it's how you live that matters.

The Navy Corpsman

just visiting said...

@ ST

I would agree. This is why I'm very careful to note that this worrying on men's part is a lot shorter than some outside of the sphere would expect. I mention it only to ballance out the idea that it doesn't happen at all.

Marellus said...

@ The Navy Corpsman

... it's not how you live NC ... it never was ... it never will be ... and it will always be ... about one word ... and only one word :


... the only word you have to say ... the only word that has ever had any meaning ...

... that one word with which you can say this : 'It was worth it' ... I could say 'Hello' to you ... I have thought you ... I have dreamed about you ... and now I've met you ...

... now don't go all teary-eyed me ... I've met you ... I have really met you ... now you're gonna do your duties ... now you're gonna do your stuff ... and you're not gonna complain ... you're not gonna moan ... you're gonna finish this ... because in another life you're gonna say 'Hello' to me ... because it's your turn to say 'Hello' to me ... and it will be worth it ... it will really be worth it ... because then I can say : 'How have you been' ... and mean it ...

Anonymous said...


I am just me.

The Navy Corpsman

Grasshopper said...

Re: Dying alone….

Does not seem so bad to me.

When my father died I told my sisters “treat me in death as you did in life”. No gooey soppy tearful good byes (like they did with Dad) to make my dying days extra miserable.

Dad was unconscious but I could almost see him rolling his eyes, wishing he were alone, rather than going through that ordeal. It wasn’t pleasant for the living persons in the room either let me tell you.

If you have not expressed your love and appreciation for someone while they are alive saying it to them on their death bed will not make up for it.


Spacetraveller said...

@ NC and Grasshopper,

"It's not how you die, it's how you live that matters."

"treat me in death as you did in life”.

I think you are both saying more or less the same thing! I do get your point.
But Grasshopper, I empathise with your sisters because I would certainly have done the same thing. Having said that, it's good you warned them as to what you wouldn't want. Fair enough.

NC, I see you too have been 'Marellified' lol.

I didn't get any of that. Marellus, could you explain it to me like a 6 year old?

Marellus said...


My bad, when I'm onto a good idea, I get carried away sometimes.