Friday, January 4, 2013



Yes I get it.

In the context of a new year (Happy New Year to all, by the way!) the title of this post may easily be misconstrued.

No problem. I shall explain.

I don't mean New Year's resolutions.

Although...speaking of which, I do have an important one.
Not too private to share, so I will.

I shall learn to dance this year :-)
Though, not quite like that in the video accompanying this post, one might be relieved to hear :-)

And... in bowing to popular demand, I shall try to keep posts shorter henceforth.
This New Year resolution may be harder to keep, but I shall try.

I fully rely on you guys to give me a little rap on the knuckles if I exceed acceptable limits :-)

With regards to the SMP, I have alternated (quite schizophrenically) between optimistic and pessimistic.
Now I arrive at the gates of 'neutral'.

Here's how I arrived here.

I had always liked this particular song but not necessarily the pop group, a British girl band known as 'The Sugababes'. I like the 'rhythm' of the underlying beat of this song.
I had also never seen this video until very recently.

It is generally 'raunchy' as one would expect of a pop music video.

But I see something else.

It seems quite apocalyptic to me, for some reason. It also seems incredibly tragic. I find it a particularly joyless song, with my new frame of mind recently, whereas I always liked it before without the 'visual' and not paying much attention to the lyrics.

Women in a ring, men apparently excluded, a metal barricade separating the two genders until the very end.

The lyrics start with this:

Round, round baby
Round, round
Spinning out on me
I don't need no man
Got my kicks for free

And somewhere in the middle we have this...

Explanations - no you don't need one
Having a good time
Getting down to the fun
And it's your time
Just tonight he'll be mine
And he's gone

Which seems to describe a 'round and round situation' known as a 'carousel' rather well...

And we end up with...

Does it hurt, when you see
How I've done
Without you
Thought that I couldn't belong
Never thought that you could be so cruel
All you need is some friends
Won't be by yourself
Let's go round and round and round and round and r-o-u-nd

There's certainly a touch of 'you hate how I succeed without you' here.

And so on.

This reminds me of the post about angry men and women.

Men and women angry at each other and chasing each other round and round an empty rink of some sort.
Except in this picture drawn by the Sugababes, the women are secluded in a secure area - presumably for their own safety.

How is this all going to end?

The resolution will come, for sure.
But in what form?

What will happen to these angry men and women of the SMP when they are in their 80s and 90s?

Would it be the 'decline' predicted by some?
Or a miraculous recovery by all concerned?

I suddenly had the thought that it would be more like a peaceful resolution.
A contentment which may well be unexpected by all concerned.

But good enough.

I guess everyone has something to be angry about to some extent.
But as Bellita once said, perhaps it is women who will have to blink first.
Remarkable insight.

But not every woman wants to blink first.

Does anyone else have a different ending in mind?
If so, why not share?


OffTheCuff said...

Learn to dance for real... Swing dance. Where you touch your partner and someone leads, none of this silly club or beach dancing.

Spacetraveller said...


Brilliant advice for me :-)

I must admit, I had to look up 'swing dance'. I never heard this term it an Americanism for what I would call 'ballroom dancing'?

You may have read my post about Tango dancing...I LOVE the idea of dance, and whilst I think I have the potential to be a great dancer, for some reason, I haven't yet realised it, lol.

There is a good reason I would like to learn to dance this year. And yes, I don't think I have much use for 'club dancing'.

Whilst I like dances like Tango, Salsa, etc., I feel it might be 'too much' for me.

I have developed a 'crush' on the dance called the Ländler. It has an important personal significance for me and I think it is also a beautiful, graceful dance without being too, erm, sensual, lol.

If I could dance the Ländler well in a few months, I would be a very happy girl indeed!

That is my simple goal for 2013 :-)

Unknown said...

You move to America and you can learn to line-dance. No talent is required except you have to buy cowboy boots, and believe me, you'll love them.

This Old Man said...

Swing is a specific dance from the U.S. done to a gentrified form of jazz known as Big Band Music. It was all the rage during the 40s and early 50s. It enjoyed a big time revival about a decade ago but that seems to have died down now.

Keep in mind all the scenes are from movie clips and the dancers are professionals. Social swing did not get anywhere near as acrobatic as that, but you can see the possibilities.

Somehow it does not surprise me that you chose the Ländler. In fact, I think I should have guessed. The dance hall version is a stately dance by modern standards, but of course not as much as older dances such as quadrilles:

I myself would have suggested the Tango because, you know, “Dance is the vertical expression of a horizontal desire legalized by music (att. George Bernard Shaw).”

How is this all going to end?

The same way it always has. This generation will be succeeded by the next and so forth and so forth and all will be forgot.

Spacetraveller said...

Hey Bob, you smooth operator...
Is this an invitation to me to come to America?

You are right - I would LOVE to wear cowboy boots and a cowgirl hat! I have never worn those before - that would be cool indeed...
(But... no guns, lol)

@ TOM,

Thanks for the explanation!
Looks similar to the 'Charleston', no? Is this indeed one and the same dance?

Oh yes, the Ländler is a wonderful dance...
As indeed is the Tango...
And of course you point out one of my reasons (um, excuses) not to learn it, lol.

I kid, I kid...
I would love to learn that one day too.
But small steps first...
The Tango requires much more skill than the Ländler, I think...

This Old Man said...

No, though the Charleston is also dance to jazz, it is from the previous generation

Unknown said...

"You are right - I would LOVE to wear cowboy boots and a cowgirl hat! I have never worn those before - that would be cool indeed...
(But... no guns, lol)"

You move to Texas and you can wear a cowboy hat and cowboy boots. As for guns, everyone is Texas has a gun.

As I said, in the state I live in there is open carry and I have women with pistols on their hips.

In the U.S. a woman with a firearm is not considered "masculine," except maybe among liberals, and they're considered effete wimps.

PVW said...

@ Bob Wallace:

In the U.S. a woman with a firearm is not considered "masculine," except maybe among liberals, and they're considered effete wimps.

Me: I live in a blue state (we're concealed carry); I mentioned previously that my opinion on guns is similar to any red staters, as I have been around guns through relatives who grew up around guns, ie., hunting, and later in the military. They taught me gun safety and showed my how to shoot. I finally went in today for my firearm safety class so that I can get my license. Mr. PVW and I are looking forward to some fun hours doing target practice. He was proud to see my target sheet after the live practice class!

None of the women looked masculine; 14 men, 8 women, they all looked like regular women. The men were mostly younger, it seems, younger men who might have some interest in the military....

Ceer said...

@ Spacetraveller Re: This Old Man

Swing is a type of ballroom dance in that there is a man and woman that pair off for the entire dance, and the dance focuses on them as a couple. The dance can be performed to a fast or slow tempo.

@ Spacetraveller Re: Original Post

Women's natural instinct is to not settle for someone who isn't better than her in some way (hypergamy). The traditional socially approved way was for the man to have mastered an occupation. Currently, we have laws in the western world that make things "fair" so that half or more of the "good" jobs go to women (Yes, I know it's more complicated than this, but have boiled it down for simplicity). Let's say women have achieved equal employment to men. Since things are equal, men should on average make more than their women about 50% of the time. Then, according to the rule of hypergamy, 50% of marriages should be stable and 50% should not.

Essentially, this is fact. Here's what we can do about it:
1) Accept this new fact about our MMP
2) Reorder society in some way so that orthodox male social status is conferred by something other than material wealth.
3) Reorder society so men don't have to compete with women financially.

As of right now, we're doing primarily a mix of 1 and 2.

Women have started to rest on their laurels after making the previous changes to society. Many top men are fine with it too, because their pool of potential mates is so large. Much of option 1 is ignorance that things have changed or laziness that this problem doesn't affect them.

You can see option 2 represented by the uptick in young men who choose not to marry. Game lifestyle is more common and more organized than in the past. This is in response to the primary actor in this area: women's choices. Remember, women set the rules that men play by. The typical demands are for tingles. After all, she doesn't need safety, security, finances, or friendship. She HAS all that. Men simply don't have anything else to offer. Don't blame men for giving the women what they want. The signal is clear.

Option 3 was the previous orientation for society for about the last thousand years. We can go back to this system or something like it easier than you would think. All we'd have to do is to wipe out the current legal structure forcing the soft quota system of women into the workforce and stop hyping up the don't need a man culture. Men have been the primary work force in civilized countries for a reason. Government didn't make that happen.

Unknown said...

"Remember, women set the rules that men play by"

Since men created civilization, men set the rules, not women. Since men has ceased to be men (hence the nonsense of the Manosphere, the Lost Boys of which can do little more than imitate its bad ideas), women have become lost, too.

Ceer said...

@ Bob Wallace

I was talking about my maxim, which deals with relationships, and how that plays out in society at large.

"Men define the rules women play by, women define the rules men play by."

Women most definitely have a say in whether or not to respect society by selecting the kind of company they keep. You should also brush up on your subject/verb agreement before posting again. I don't think the mannosphere would take criticism from someone who can't put together a proper sentence.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Ceer,

I believe yours is a very accurate summary of where things went wrong.

But I deviate from you a little in what Game is all about.
Yes, a lot of it is about getting a woman into bed.
But some women simply won't respond to that (alone) of course.
Many do, granted.

What we previously debated as 'Inner Game' is what marriage-minded women will respond to.
However, a sign for the man that she is sexually interested in him is so important for the man (and should be), I imagine, so yes, even 'Outer Game' has its uses :-)

There is a fourth option which I keep bleating on about.
Which is, despite a woman's success in career, for her to see men (and one man in particular) as still her 'superior' (ah, awful choice of word, but I can't think of a better word in this context - I definitely don't want to say 'equal' here, because I know that no woman wants her 'equal' no matter how much she protests to the contrary).
Game can compensate for this to a small degree.
But believe me, Ceer, no amount of Game can compensate enough for this if the woman herself does not do it internally.
This is why I think TPM's advice for women to 'see the good' in every man they meet is such great advice.
It allows the woman herself to do this 'work' for herself, internally.
As you may know, when Bellita tried this exercise, it worked wonders for her (she posted about this on her blog).

A lot of this 'burden' in correcting the ills of the current SMP falls to women, Ceer. Individual women.


Men set the rules of civilisation, yes.
But women definitely set the tone in relationships/society/culture.

I am with Ceer on this one, (long before I hit the Manosphere this was already apparent to me).

Unknown said...

"I don't think the mannosphere would take criticism from someone who can't put together a proper sentence."

Of course none of them listen to me, but all of them have severe problems with women, girlfriends, wives. I don't.

I always set the tone. Generally, I tell them I make the final decision, because women are more influenced by their feelings than men. If they won't accept that, I want nothing to do with them.

When men don't run things, and let women do it, society is on its way to collapse.

That's a truth that a grammatical error cannot change.

Ceer said...

@ Bob Wallace

Ah, argument by reframe. Very good job of arguing just how an emotional woman does. There's an easy way to have no woman have no woman.

As Dalrock recently suggested, there's a big difference between that and real intellectual conversation. Bob, you've got the biggest wang of all of us. Now go play with your toys so the adults can have a chat.

@ Spacetraveller

I agree that game is no substitute for real value. A wise woman can sniff out low value men. The crux of my statement was that men HAVE to provide some sort of real benefit to the women in their lives, else there is no reason to make a personal association.

The Private Man's exercise is useful for women with specific issues. I see it as being similar to the American tradition before Thanksgiving where people list one thing they are thankful for every day of November. Both practices are good for opening people's eyes to the good that's already present.

Spacetraveller said...

Now now, Gentlemen...

Perhaps we are talking about two different things, Bob.
You were clearly referring to an individual man and an individual woman when you mentioned about 'setting the tone'.

I think Ceer and I were referring to Society at large, where the actions of women determine the direction of life in general, for everyone.
This happens in all societies on Earth.

In all fairness, Ceer did explain this before:

"I was talking about my maxim, which deals with relationships, and how that plays out in society at large."

I think what you describe is the natural order of 'Patriarchy' within each individual relationship. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
I happen to like that arrangement, but I don't think every man knows how to execute it correctly, so I can understand when some women balk at that idea...

When a man does it well (I suspect perhaps you do!), it works well, no?

Yes, about Game, it IS a good equaliser for men who lack that 'je ne sais quoi' that other men seem to be born with and which has women falling at their feet wherever they go...

But like everything, if used with good intent in mind, it can work wonders.
And yes, it DOES provide women with what they really want in men, if other factors such as finance have been taken out of the equation. Agreed!

So yes, where a woman really needs a provider type, one could argue that if a man can demonstrate this effectively to her, neither of them needs Game...
Is this too simple a view?

dannyfrom504 said...

SHORTER POSTS!!!!!!????? :/

we shall see. happy new year love. the girls have been keeping off my site lately. lol.

decided to post more for the lads, and some of it is a bit dark.

Spacetraveller said...

Happy New Year to you too, Maestro!

"SHORTER POSTS!!!!!!????? :/"

Rome wasn't built in a day :-)

"decided to post more for the lads, and some of it is a bit dark."

Um, I noticed.
These days, you remind me of this merry chap :-)

dannyfrom504 said...


i whole-heartedly admit i was an asshole when i was younger. but i also did VERY well with women.

i have mellowed now that i'm in my 30's.

Spacetraveller said...


Well, I guess a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do...

dannyfrom504 said...

*shrugs shoulders* i'm not PROUD of it.