Tuesday, March 27, 2012

Manhood United, Womanhood unlimited

I got the distinct impression yesterday that I stepped on someone's toes.
Or the collective toes of manhood.

I suggested in a clumsy way in trying to pose a question, that 'Game' could be a retort against feminism.
I said other outrageous things that pushed all the wrong buttons for at least one person.
As I said in my response to that person, I was not 'fitness testing'. Which is true.
I was fishing for evidence that I am doing the right thing by identifying with the potentially contentious crowd that are collectively known as the Red Pill poppers.

I think we are cool now, Mr Displeased and I.
At least I hope so :-)

But this little episode taught me something that I thought I understood in principle, but I stll fail on in practice.

Never walk into the locker room.
I do avoid the locker room. Like the plague. Most of the time. But occasionally I accidentally find myself in it and then I have to run out again screaming and holding my head in my hands.

Masculinity is sacred to men. Just like femininity is sacred to women.
I get that.
The only reason I and other Red Pill women want to understand masculinity is purely to enable us to navigate seemingly confusing behaviour in men. We need/want to see beyond the haze. This may take some unauthorised trips to 'the locker room' to achieve. These trips are usually accidental, always fortuitous.
Beyond scraping the surface of masculinity, my interest wilts. As it should.

My last 'accidental' trip to the locker room saw me asking if perhaps some men saw feminism as a 'good thing' because it gave some men some incredible benefits.
Someone said 'Objection'!

So although I gave a good defence as to why I asked the question, I take it back.

Feminism in its worst form is bad for society. We are all agreed?
And Game in its purest form is about the sacred assembly of the highest order of masculinity in any given man.

So in penance for my transgressions (Erm, I know how to do penance really well, and we are still afterall in Lent, hehe) I dedicate this post to Masculinity (capital M) and all its participants and cheerleaders :-)

I was talking to a friend whom I haven't seen for a long time. During the course of our conversation she mentioned she had gone fishing with her husband the weekend before.
Not being particularly interested in fishing, I was non-plussed by this.
But she went on and on about this.

She had always resented the fact that her husband does not spend enough time with her and the kids. During the week and most saturdays he is working. And then on sundays, what does he do? Goes fishing :-)


She has bugged him for years about this, but nothing's changed.
Then for some reason, after yet another argument, he calmly invited her to join him to go fishing. The kids were sent off to friends and off they went to go catch some fish.

She said that when they got to the lake and he set about preparing the fishing tackle and the lures and bait and what not, she couldn't help but notice a few thngs:

He took such great care to get his gear together. He seemed to be really concentrating on his 'work', all the while enthusiastically explaining to her why he thought such and such a manoeuvre would work and why that lure or other might not.
And at the same time he also seemed so relaxed and seemed to be enjoying himself.
They sat and he fished for hours.
At the beginning she said she was conversing with him. But after a while, she stopped talking and just enjoyed the peace and quiet with him. She said he seemed to enjoy the quiet more.

My friend told me she now understood why her husband went fishing so much. She now saw what it did for him. She felt it was a special experience for him. She just didn't know before.

Neither did I. Can't say I have ever been fishing. But now I know it can do for a man what a retail therapy session with the BFF can do for a girl :-)

I watched South African all-male choir 'Ladysmith Black Mambazo' sing the other day. These men became the symbol of hope for Nelson Mandela while he was in prison. He took them with him when he travelled the world - to Oslo when he received his Nobel Peace Prize, to England when he visited the Queen, and they were right there with him when he was inaugurated as president in 1994.

The call themselves 'the family'. One of them now has managed to recruit 4 of his sons into the choir. It is a bastion of maleness. A family of men.
And yet women are not necessarily excluded. These guys practise with their wives and girlfriends in their recoding studio all the time. Their children are heavily involved in their music. The next generation of Mambazos are being recruited with each practice session. The whole community is part of their wider team.
These men are a family of men, but everything they do is for both men and women to enjoy.

There are many other male and female equivalents of the Ladysmith Black Mambazo singers.
Any boyband or girlband that can truly call themselves a 'family' - not just a bunch of people thrown together for commercial gain.

Boy scouts. Girl guides or Brownies.
Women's organisations that have nothing to do with feminism. Like some 'Mothers' groups'.

It is indeed beautiful when a man or a woman knows what it is to be a man or a woman. It is only then that one becomes truly open to the other gender.

In individualistic terms, it is one's own sense of self  that enables one to seek and understand another. If a self-identity is missing, one cannot fuse with another.

Lost describes another activity for men only. I think it would be great to have this tradition back in modern life, health issues aside.

Fishing, hunting (and I know that at least one man here hunts), sports...GREAT things for a man to do. If they feel so inclined, how cool would it be to involve willing womenfolk and children (um, occasionally?? if the thought of  a regular stint is unpalatable to male tastes :-)
Many women have their own outdoor 'thing' too, although it may not necessarily coincide with a man's 'thing'.

I was going to include video games and watching TV to the above list...
But I know many women have 'issues' with these.
I know why:
A man who is out of sight playing football or fishing with his mates can be imagined to be doing amazingly wonderful 'manly' things.
If he is sitting right under your nose seemingly ignoring you whilst zoning out on a video game or TV it takes away from this illusion somewhat :-)

Leisure acitivity is on the decline in many ways, for both genders. Shame, because for one it may buck the trend of obesity for most people, being a fun way to lose weight and destress all at the same time.

Work is already something that men can see as a 'masculinity marker'. I can understand that. But unless 'work' is your own business or a passion of yours, a leisure activity, whether sporting or not is surely unbeatable in terms of your own little oasis of masculinity?

We should never stop doing what makes us masculine or feminine.
For it is a huge facet of our essence, no?


just visiting said...

The ex had a race car that he used to race. Friends and family would wonder why the expense and time didn't drive me up the wall. My rational was that I'd rather he get his thrill of the unexpected, his ego strokes and and his dopamine fix with fast cars instead of fast women. The car may have been a jealous and possesive mistress (not to mention a complete entitlement princess when it came to maintainence)but one I could live with.lol. And it gave him time to be with the guys.

Into the locker room....I'd need to know what you mean by game in it's purest form. I don't tend to white wash game in my mind. I can't. I grew up with it in it's lightest and darkest forms. (Dad had the wonderful ability of teasing and praising, not unlike what Danny describes, but I was also a daughter who at times grew up around his hard harem. To me, game is something that just "is". The primal. But like a force of nature, it can either be a creative force or a destructive force. Though, as has been discussed before, I see it as an aspect of masculinity, but not the whole package.

Rasana said...

@ ST,

Masculinity seems sacred, at least to me and the younger crowd, because we weren't taught much. But when we encountered it on the internet, things clicked. And fit. And worked in real life.

I expect a similar effect with femininity and girls.


Dawwwwww, you're just so cute and eager when you try so hard to understand.

We're not bashing you, but giving you a nudge because you are one of the very few ladies that understand the plight of men.

Stay classy; we adore you for it.

Spacetraveller said...

@ JV,

"My rational was that I'd rather he get his thrill of the unexpected, his ego strokes and and his dopamine fix with fast cars instead of fast women."

Haha can't argue with that. Good point!

"....I'd need to know what you mean by game in it's purest form."

I meant the kind of Game that teaches a man about how to be a man of character. I still find this concept of 'outcome independence' such a wholesome phenomenon. I think there might be a feminine version but for the life of me I can't give it a name. And even if I did, I would struggle to put that in practice :-)
The paradox with this 'pure Game' is that it actually gets a man high quality women, as opposed to the low hanging fruit that the purely 'sizzle' stuff gets a guy, in my humble (female) opinion.

But I shall retreat from the locker room door now!

@ Rasana,

Thanks for your compliment. I appreciate it.
I remember something Bellita always says her mother says about her: that she is intelligent, but not smart.
I think that might apply to me sometimes LOL.

I like the nudges you guys give me. No sweat no gain right?

My friend in the post used to complain about her husband's fishing to me and anyone else who would listen all the time. Of course it never occurred to me that there was nothing wrong with what he was doing, so I commiserated with her. Post Red Pill, I really haven't seen her much lately. And then all of a sudden SHE turns round and tells me how great his fishing is.
Top marks to husband. He fed her a Red Pill of sorts in a calm way without her noticing...

But I'm wondering: why did he take so long to take her fishing? He could have prevented years of arguments by doing this.
Anyone care to explain why it takes men so long to do certain things? Should this be a rhetorical question?

dannyfrom504 said...

hunting....did someone mention hunting? who hunts? bow or gun? what are we killing: deer, turkey, wild boar, quail....

what else am i gonna use the guns for Love?

don't answer that.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Danny,

Yes it's you I was thinking of who hunts!
(Actually I don't know anyone else who hunts...in the UK, fox-hunting has now been all but outlawed - in any case the Royals have always come under attack for it).
Is hunting seen as 'approved' in the USA?
Are there clashes with animal rights groups on this?

What do you think of the argument that hunting/fishing/anything that men like seems to be labelled 'cruel sport'?
Do you see this as a covert, insidious form of misandry? I know at least one man who thinks this. But I have never thought about it deeply enough until now.
I am kinda 'getting it' inasmuch as if what is considered 'feminine activity' were to be suddenly outlawed I would be annoyed too.

Do boy scouts/girl guides even exist anymore? Are these activities outlawed too? I was never a girl guide, but I think the whole scout/guide movement was a good thing for kids. That and National Service.
In countries where National Service is no longer enforced, kids are unruly - true or false?
I have lived in countries with both NS and without. I have my own verdict on this question.

You as a military man, Danny, what do you think about this? Is NS another form of 'masculine training' that you would endorse, eg. for your own future son?

Come to think of it, is NS a good thing for girls as well, as in the case of Israel? Or does it unnecessarily masculinise young women?

How did your short comment yield so many questions, Danny?


dannyfrom504 said...

your hamster took over. and most women are turned on by men hunting. it's very primal.

hunting is VERY popular in certain parts of the US, it's quite cultural. here in norf florida hunting is a way of life and boy's can't wait to kill their first deer.

and it's something passed down from father/uncle/grandfather to boy.

my grandfather made me run-down 5 rabbit's before i could get my first gun. i was 7-8.

i can't wait for deer season to get here.

just visiting said...

Not in agreement that game builds character. That's a higher function. Game is ( mostly) a primal function.

Most outcome independant teachings in game either gloss over how to do that or emphasize self grandiosity or contempt for women. Big difference in that would be TPM's confidence sub routine. Best thing he's ever written.

Develop your purpose, you develop confidence. develop your higher functions, you develop self validation. Develop your lower functions, you develop power.

As a woman I'd be looking at feminine power as the combination of the feminine, the seductive, purpose and the higher functions of character, principals, ect. So far, the manosphere tends to focus on sluts and the feminine. But even when focusing on the feminine, they seem preoccupied with pretty and nurturing. Not much focus on character other than lack of sluttieness.

Anonymous said...

@ JV,

...seem preoccupied with pretty and nurturing. Not much focus on character other than lack of sluttieness.

I think this is a distinction between the Sexual Marketplace and the Marriage Marketplace.

In the SMP, my focus is on sexuality and companionship. In the absence of a committed relationship, Companionship = Nurturing.

In the MMP, I am looking for the same things, plus fidelity. In a committed relationship, Fidelity = Character.


just visiting said...

@ Danny

Running down rabbits? Does that mean chase them on foot? And catch them? I didn't know that was even possible. Lol.

@ Bill

Good points.
Bill, if you looked back on everything that you've experienced about masculinity, what would be the core things that you would want women to know and appreciate.

dannyfrom504 said...

Yeah, it's possible. I'm going to post about how to do it. My dad's dad is Houma Indian and he taught me how to do it. Finding them is a pain, running them is a cinch.

Anonymous said...

@ ST,

I want women to trust the men that they pick. The men they pick to be their husbands. The men they pick to father their children.

Trust them to lead. Trust them to put the needs of the family ahead of their own needs (and yours).

And then follow and support them. If you can't trust him with your life, your future, and your children...

Then you should have picked a different man!

Pick wisely the first time. The do-overs are a bitch.


Spacetraveller said...

@ Danny,

"your hamster took over."

My first reaction to this was, 'who me'?
But I can't deny it...
Yup, I definitely have a hamster and it's a tireless one.
I am sure if you race my hamster with those of other people in the manner of greyhound racing, mine would win :-)

@ JV,
Ah, I never saw Game as you do, before. But now you mention it...
It is said that one's character is already formed by age 16. Any changes after that will be minor adjustments only, not major overhauls.
Is this true for everyone?
If so, then you are right - nothing a man reads on The Manosphere is going to improve his 'character'.
So if a man becomes the noble being that real character can afford him, somehow that must be an internal process irrespective of how many Game blogs he has read? So 'Game' could be seen as a 'passenger' in a man's life and not the 'driver'?
I have a feeling this is taking me too far into 'locker room' territory though.

"So far, the manosphere tends to focus on sluts and the feminine. But even when focusing on the feminine, they seem preoccupied with pretty and nurturing. Not much focus on character other than lack of sluttieness."
I seem to remember that TPM especially does focus a whole lot on the character/personality of a woman.
Is this a function of age?
TPM is probably a father-figure right?
The younger Game bloggers do seem to focus on what appeals to them on the surface, ie. pretty and nurturing...
So a combination of the two will provide the complete package for a woman looking to make herself more attractive to men.
But it has to be said, no matter how much solid character a woman possesses, if she ain't 'pretty on the outside' she won't get noticed at all by a man. Sad but true. So maybe that's why so many men who want to help women focus on this?

@ Bill,
Good point about the distinction between SMP and MMP.

"Pick wisely the first time. The do-overs are a bitch."
Good advice. Tough one to achieve. But some people have, so it is not impossible.

Anonymous said...

Spacetraveller said...

"The only reason I and other Red Pill women want to understand masculinity is purely to enable us to navigate seemingly confusing behaviour in men. We need/want to see beyond the haze."

Remember all those jokes people tell, about how men cannot understand women, and women like it that way?

Your above statement is perhaps the best evidence you've posted thus far, that you're an outlier, a Red Pill woman. You're trying to logically dissect the behavior of men. Generally, logic is the tool of men, and somewhere along the path of your own childhood, someone showed you the worth of it. You may still have the emotional connections of a female, but you're showing that these emotions are not the best tool to interpret that which interests you.

As I've said before, I must have been blessed with good 'inner Game' in my youth, but I confess that I don't look at it in that manner. Game seems to be far too focused, as it is presented, on getting a woman into bed. I'll only admit to having a certain roguish charm that allowed me to know how to talk to single women, since it was axiomatic in my early life to NOT show interest in married women.

If, by 'outcome independence', you mean 'don't give a f*ck', then yes, it has a certain appeal. That's something I think is inborn in some males. It's a more unconscious than conscious decision, one that essentially leaves me blameless for anything that happens to go wrong. Not probably what you wanted to hear, but it's more or less true, in most situations.

I tend to believe that most women want this mysterious 'alpha' male, but instead of a mix of alpha and beta, women want to makeover alphas to have beta abilities, or at least become the provider in certain ways, while still retaining the badboy aura. In 1985, I dated a woman for several weeks, who made me run away FAST, when she told me, "You'd be such a great husband and father, if only you'd listen to me."

Bajeezus. I had LOTS of role models, not all of them good examples, but I sure learned early not to allow anyone to control my behavior.

Rasana has already articulated my thoughts pretty well... Game is merely an extension of the previous 5000 years of chat-up lines. You just have to remember who came up with the term in the first place, to describe how to get non-fanatical feminists to sleep with them. You can sit at your computer and analyze all you want, logically or emotionally, but there is little that this last wave of feminism has done, for anyone.

Spacetraveler, you once asked why men prefer quiet, peaceful surroundings where they don't feel a need to fill the silence. Danny asked you why he should talk, when no one is listening... I told you that stillness is a rare treasure. Later, you and other females admitted that while some information is always being transmitted, female chat is more about social bonds than information transfer.

Neither is right, and neither is wrong, they're just different wiring in action. Guys that take the Red Pill KNOW that they can survive alone, outside your village; they rarely set out to do so from the start of their adulthood, but regardless of when they started, it is part of being male to be ok with being alone. This is very rarely true for women. Civilization may be male, but if society is therefore female, the village is absolutely necessary for you.

Men don't need the village. We built the damned thing to begin with, we can walk away (if necessary) and live without it. Rasana pointed out above (good words, Rasana!) that no self-respecting man wants what feminism hath wrought.

Rasana said...

"And Game is not an antidote to feminism's poisons, nor is it a panacea."

A-men. Game just IS.

The Navy Corpsman

Anonymous said...


Hunting is indeed legal, but regulated, in all the USA. Yes, there are clashes with animal rights activists, but hunting has been part of this continent since my ancestors crossed the Bering land bridge from Siberia. Hunting may be primal and all that, but it's also a food thing. $25.00 for a license to fill the freezer with 1000 lbs of elk? No brainer.

As for the connection to Nature, that's just a given, at least in my mind. I was taught to hunt by my grandfather, starting at age five. He was a World War I veteran, who got to vote for President of the US for the first time in 1924.

The Navy Corpsman

Rasana said...

@ The Navy Corpsman,

I am pretty assured that the core methods and mannerisms of what we call 'Game' today has always existed. We could call it the tall/silent type, the rugged cowboy swagger, lovable rogue etc.... history is filled with it. It's taken a few months to reflect on this fact.

Yet we've lost this for the past 2-3 generations. Boys and girls weren't taught the subtle social dance, but were twisted with vitrol by authority elders, well-meaning or not.

It is a crime against humanity for anyone to collaborate with such radical feminist fanatics: to twist the educations and childhoods of so many children, to attack the minds and hearts of kids with such poison/omission is a travesty.
And it's not just the radical vanguard; any delusional parent who tolerates this shit is abusing children. Full stop.

And that last point is exclusive of the massive waste of time and energy that feminist fanaticism has encouraged.

The pain is extreme when the red pill digest and your eyes snap wide OPEN. To realize the massive disconnect (of what you were fed and what really works in terms of relationships) is shocking if not soul-shattering
For me, 1.5 years of the Manosphere after years of analyzing with the 'nice guy' meme is the capstone to my university career, better than any thesis.
I would rather love my future wife with my eyes open, than shut.

Because it is more pitiful to be a blind beta when the village is burning.

But that future depends on if a young lady actually wake up and choose to leave the village with me. Time's on my side, but not for ladies.
@ ST

You are by far the most astute, eager and humble red pill lady I`ve read.
You got me to comment, which I don`t do. Ever.
Because of your qualities, your posts keep hitting the mark.
Stay classy!

Spacetraveller said...

@ NC,

"Remember all those jokes people tell, about how men cannot understand women, and women like it that way?"


Jokes contain so many truisms!
I once watched a fascinating interview with two comedians who explained how they and other comedians actually use jokes to 'talk' to their audience subliminally. No-one notices because they are too busy laughing, but the transmission of a message is quietly being achieved. This was in a country with a touchy political history...

"You'd be such a great husband and father, if only you'd listen to me."

Thanks for this one, which goes into the 'what not to say to a man' box!
For one, it's perhaps far too direct! JV alluded to this conundrum for women.
For two, I can see how it is an example of 'projecting'.
Works well the other way round, i.e. on females, but I can see how a man would hate this.
Herein lies a big difference between men and women, I guess.
One of my bosses is very close to retirement. He is outrageously 'outcome independent'.
I also realise he has been feeding me the Red Pill ever since I started working for him.
He basically took on the role of 'father' from Day 1.
I can be a little stubborn sometimes (cough, cough).
One thing he always said to me was
"You'd be such a great wife if only you'd listen to me." Always said in jest, I know he is 'passing on a message' subliminally.
Another man in my entourage also says the same thing to me all the time, in various guises.
In both cases, I react like Danny does to the topic of hunting:
"Wife, did anyone say wife?"
Rather than turn me off, they now had my attention!
I would imagine a different reaction from a man though...i.e. one remarkably similar to your reaction to your ex.

I think it is that 'wiring' again...men are naturally dominant, so they don't want to feel 'controlled' by anyone. Women are natural followers so deep down no matter how much we protest, we DO want someone to follow. The trick is to follow the right one.
I know so many women find it hard to admit this. It's not cool to admit this. It is so non-PC...
But given that this is my blog, and so I can say what I like, I say it with abandon.
*looks around nervously*

Spacetraveller said...

@ Rasana,
"Yet we've lost this for the past 2-3 generations. Boys and girls weren't taught the subtle social dance, but were twisted with vitrol by authority elders, well-meaning or not."

True. In an attempt to fix what wasn't really broken, the 2 generations above us REALLY broke the pot.
Somehow we have to repair the pot.

I think it was you(?) who said that the blame game was futile...
I happen to agree.
The last 2 generations are dying off.
We are the ones who have to live with the broken pot. No point blaming the dead, so to speak.

"I would rather love my future wife with my eyes open, than shut."

Because it is more pitiful to be a blind beta when the village is burning."

Again, I cannot find anything to disagree with here. I know a few men who were in this position, sadly. Experience as they say, is the best teacher, even if it is someone else's experience.

"You got me to comment, which I don`t do. Ever."

I got a man to talk?
I can't tell you how much of a 'validation' that is.

Now, if only I could achieve this in real life just once...

Rasana said...

@ ST,

There is a point to blaming the dead. Shall I meet them after death, I'm giving them a whack, even if we're all part of the same Godhead/matterium such that I feel the pain too.

I hope humanity learns from this semi-horrid ideology (face it, rad Fem. is not the worst), and shouts from the hills of this great world: "Never again" (until humanity forgets the lesson and is doomed to relive this).

I have always thought that the people who hijack education, in order to perpetuate cycles of pain and heartbreak, are EVIL men and women. How sad that we are so misguided by PR and gossip and peer pressure, seeded by some bitchy idiots.

But I relish the chance to guide the next 2 generations toward eager and honest gender reformation, toward harmony and love. We should seek not weak values, but the compassionate values, which are strong.


Haha, I don't get approach failure/validation IRL because I don't approach. Maybe later.'sadface.jpg'

You need to be braver out there, honey.

Anonymous said...

Allow me to be blunt.

Spacetraveller, Just Visiting, and/or any other women reading this:

Do you want to be married?

Whether your answer is yes or no, why?

The Navy Corpsman

just visiting said...


Because I offer incredible depth, insight and ability for:

Love,passion, sex, companionship, romance,synergy,vulnerability and the ability to honor anothers,comitment, ideas, intimacy, nurturing femininity, attractiveness, parenting skills, courage, honor, integrety, resourcefulness, spirituality, understanding, protectiveness, and parenting skills,and the ability to give.

and I'd like to marry someone whose depth and capacity matches my own. A healthy relationship gives as well as receives. And I suppose that in doing so, a certain poetry of the soul is fulfilled.

just visiting said...

Hmn, my answer ended up in the ethers.

just visiting said...

Let's try this again. To answer your question,


To answer "why"?

I bring an incredible amount of depth, insight, and ability to the following laundry list:

Love, passion, sex, companionship, intimacy,romance,synergy, vulnerability and the ability to honor someone elses vulnerability, spirituality, commitment, ideas, principals, integrety,character, courage,honor, femininity, nurturence, attractiveness, parenting skills and an ability to love and protect a child not born to me, a love of cooking, and a respect of personal space, as well as the flexibility to build a life with someone.

I'd like to marry someone who can match me in depth and capacity. Healthy relationships receive as well as give. And I suppose in doing so, a certain poetry of the soul is fulfilled.

Now, it was a blunt and direct answer that I was asked. And I've answered as such. But talk is cheap. In relationship, these qualities would, in appropriate feminine manner, unfold and display.

just visiting said...

oh sure, NOW it shows up. LOL.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Rasana,

I was reminded of the expression 'flogging a dead horse' reading the first sentence of your last comment :-)

"Haha, I don't get approach failure/validation IRL because I don't approach."
Believe it or not I was referring to men I already know, including my own flesh and blood...
It's been a lifelong struggle to get some of them to give me more than 2 words at a time...I am coming to the conclusion that I might never win this one :-)
But that's OK. Can't win 'em all...

@ NC,
"Do you want to be married?"

Um, yes (gulp).
JV's answer above is so straight-laced I am tempted to counter it and go the 'irreverent' route (variety is the spice of life and all that...) and reply to you,
"Because I want to wear a pretty white dress and eat cake for one day".
But I won't do that :-)

Here's my true answer: Because I want to be together apart with some lovable rogue who believes I am the bees' knees (even if he may not always say it).
That's it.

I have never forgotten your 'together apart' phrase. I don't have skin tattoos. But I am getting quite a collection on my cerebral matter. This is one of my brain 'tats' - 'Together apart'.

Spacetraveller said...

@ JV,

Sorry, I just recovered your comemnt from the spam box!

Anonymous said...

Thank you, ladies.

The reason I asked, is a typical male one, clarification of information. The question why was to clarify purpose of mind. I'll not waste your time with support for, or against your purpose, since I don't think it's going to help or hinder.

But it seems to me, both of you are seeking, and both of you have pretty good concepts of what you want. Would it be accurate to say, you're seeking information on how to get it, as well as knowledge to serve you through life?

I think you both also know that what you seek is going to be difficult, perhaps more difficult than it has been since civilization began, for a female to find a suitable mate to spend the rest of your lives with, in today's world. I also think you both have a better than average chance, because of the way you describe the why of it. You're realistic and practical, two traits that will serve you very very well in the search, even if those traits are not common amongst modern females.

My grandmother told me, years ago, that the very best any human could do, in matters of the heart, was to be worthy of love. All the advice all the silly words I and other males have written here, fall away in the presence of that wisdom. Then, she blew my mind. She said, "And you have to be sure that the person you are considering is worthy of your love."

Quoting another relative, my grandson this time, "my brain just asploded". In those two bits, was everything. Not only humility, but self-worth. Not only self improvement, but recognition of Quality. Sheer genius worthy of the wisest philosopher.

But let me also warn you. Do not marry, for the sake of marrying. I'm sure you thought of this also, and rejected it, but you ARE female, and emotions can be powerful things. A few years of happiness are not going to be worth a lifetime of regret. To capitalize on your self-admission of masculine traits, realize that it IS better to be alone, than with someone that isn't the right one. You may even find it necessary to take some strolls outside the village, to widen your search field. Do not fear the unknown, but be aware that new places tend to distract one's mind.


The Navy Corpsman

Anonymous said...

Spacetraveler and Just Visiting, it's your life, and your future. I understand the need for females to have, if not female approval, at least not female rejection.

But, know your worth. Do not follow just any male, although I can't believe you ever would, and be careful in your testing of any given man for suitability. Most males understand
that a woman of quality character wants a man of the same, but aim your tests at the targets most important to you, not haphazard sh*t tests to see if you can discover a hidden beta.

Also, know this: 'outcome independent' only comes into play in any given Game, when I actually do not give a.... when something matters to me, I become a laser beam of potentially extreme focus and no small amount of wattage. Same for every MAN I've ever met. Note the caps, there.

Rasana makes good points, that many males of this 1966 to 1996 or so generation were denied positive role models for growing to manhood. I've seen it firsthand, and it's sickening,
and I have done some mentoring myself. It's the post you made about the village, and the elder males v. initiations. The travesty isn't that feminism has changed from equality to
dominance, but that it's trying to redefine for males, manhood and masculinity. We've raised a generation of males who have so little imparted knowledge of what manhood or
masculinity is, yet have huge amounts of knowledge (real or made up) about what it's not, according to political correctness.

Take a good look at Japan, where the Grass-Eater males, ages 20-35, are refusing to play the Game at all. Politicians are alarmed, but not enough to stop their erosion of marriage. Recently, in fact, a law was passed where a divorce could result in a woman getting half her ex-husbands retirement. I don't know all the particulars, but no wonder more than 60% of males age 20-35 identify themselves as Grass-Eaters.

Low hanging fruit, anyone? Imagine 60% of UK males refusing to have anything to do with females... Let's Just Be Friends. Imagine 60% of American males... I can see the shudders from the females now.

Spacetraveler, imagine I'm that boss you mentioned. Now imagine I told you that there was a new employment contract. First, employment can be terminated by either you, or me, at
will. But, in case of termination, half of everything you own including real estate, will become mine. In addition, a certain percentage of your future income will also be paid
from you, to me, for a certain amount of time dependent upon how long you were employed by me. In addition, it is quite certain that there is a 50-50 chance your employment will be terminated within 10 years.

Now know that every man you meet, knows that that is exactly what marriage and divorce can mean for him.

I wish you both the best of luck. I still maintain to this day, I am the lucky one, in my marriage, and I'd rather be lucky any day, than the greatest "ladies man" that ever lived.

The Navy Corpsman

just visiting said...


A wealth of good advice.

Also, know this: 'outcome independent' only comes into play in any given Game, when I actually do not give a.... when something matters to me, I become a laser beam of potentially extreme focus and no small amount of wattage. Same for every MAN I've ever met. Note the caps, there.

Good lord NC, you just took me back to a conversation my father had with my 16 year old self. Lol.

I'm in agreement about not marrying haphazardly. Better to be alone than in a miserable marriage. And I've given a lot of thought to the very real possibility of spending my life alone. And how best to prepare myself for that. Though, I'll admit, there's that part of my soul that recoils at the thought of a loveless, passionless existance.

And yes, advice is always welcome on how best to navigate the waters of finding a good spouse. Recognizing positive masculine traits from red flags can only be a positive thing.

Though there are some gun shy men out there when it comes to marriage. Can't say that I blame them.

Spacetraveller said...

@ NC,

I thank you also for your wise words.
I know it is true what you say.
Truth is not always comfortable, but still I would rather have truth than a lie. Or as you would say, Truth (capital T).

"The travesty isn't that feminism has changed from equality to
dominance, but that it's trying to redefine for males, manhood and masculinity. We've raised a generation of males who have so little imparted knowledge of what manhood or
masculinity is, yet have huge amounts of knowledge (real or made up) about what it's not, according to political correctness."

Agreed. But men being men found a quick way to re-tip the balance such that they are 'digging their heels in' more and more.
With the damage to femininity that came with feminism, somehow women as a collective group are taking longer to recover. I think I know why, but my thoughts on this need refining.

Grasshopper said...

Kind of funny I just got back from a week long fishing trip of sorts and stop here in the Sanctuary to catch up and I find a blog about what these kinds of excursions mean to men...

“…My friend told me she now understood why her husband went fishing so much. She now saw what it did for him. She felt it was a special experience for him. She just didn't know before…”

Your friend nailed it right there.

“… how cool would it be to involve willing womenfolk…”

Very cool I think.


Grasshopper said...

@ Rasana…

“…There is a point to blaming the dead. Shall I meet them after death, I'm giving them a whack…”

No doubt the next younger generation or two will be doing the same to you young man.

When those who are 20-25 years younger than you reach adulthood and you are in your 40’s or 50’s you will no doubt be reading their blogs about how badly your generation messed things up for them.

All the good things or benefits you think you passed on to them they will trivialize, ignore or conveniently forget. Wait – it will happen to you.

I do basically agree with you about feminism, the educational system and gender relations overall. But blaming past generations about these issues means you need another Red Pill.

Call it the generational Red Pill. Unfortunately most people don’t swallow this one until they are well over 40.


Rasana said...

@ Grasshopper,

I'll come back later with a good reply.

The future peoples will deal with their own problems of their own era. As will we.

Blame doesn't factor into this in our lifetimes; it could in the afterlife, where we all come together to reflect and lightly admonish people for what they did in this world.

There's few left to mess up for the generations after me. My gen. will be doing cleanup.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Grasshopper,


Hope you had fun fishing. Catch anything nice?
Out and about today because it was such a beautiful day, I actually saw many fathers fishing with their sons and daughters, and I also saw one or two women with.
I think that's cool indeed.
There are so many things kids do with Mum. It's nice to have some 'manly' things to do with Dad too. Heck, it's nice just to have a Dad these days :-)

Anonymous said...

Heh, we baby boomers used to say the same things.

"Thanks for the A-bombs."

Each new generation, for thousands of years, has taken on the old problems of the previous, and forged new problems for the next. In that, nothing has changed, except the problems themselves.

The key is to realize that it's almost always a very few guilty leaders, in their eagerness to remain leaders, that actually created the problems. Farmers and factory workers only share in such problems by their votes for such poor leaders. The other key is to realize these new problems exist, and this current generation is recognizing just that. Save the reckoning for those who directly caused them, and later, let's all work together to educate society on just what was done.

I wonder if someone will come up with a term, such as 'denazification' used after World War II?


The Navy Corpsman

Rasana said...

@ Grasshopper,

There can indeed be future generations blaming mine for tolerating atrocities and tragedies, ecological or personal, spiritual or economical.

But that doesn't mean I can't stand up against indifference NOW. I can stand up and say "no more." I don't have to take this SHIT anymore, nor do my peers. It's all the more apparent that we need to fix or ameliorate many problems, because the very Illusion propagated by a few sociopaths at the top (thanks NC!) is disintegrating before our eyes.

It's my planet too, and I don't have to take this shit from heartless bastards who call themselves elite. And many people are awakening to this fact also. What are THEY going to do about it? They can't kill us all. Poisons are abound, but we're not all dead yet.

The younger ones after me can blame me, after I teach them about character and honest facts. They can make up their own mind about the countless tragedies that need not have happened, esp. on the relationship and gender side (which is why we gather around our hostess ST).

Now I can only do want I can. I'm not omnipotent, but I can work at it.

In every era of history, the people of the day will deal with their own problems.


I can give dead souls a Fucking whack on their non-corporeal heads if I want, Grasshopper. I'll also say: "Hey you, remember that time where you encouraged girls to indulge in spiritual destruction and run from responsibility? You didn't REALLY need to do that, now your karma's going bite your ass. Try not to next time!"



The internet will make it's own word to describe such reformative ideas, as you did NC.

Pretty soon we'll see radical extremist feminists be labelled as collaborators and traitors to humanity. There are going to be very humbled when the world rights itself from this upside-down state. It will not be healthy to identify as an extremist.

Grasshopper said...

@ Rasana…

“…I can give dead souls a Fucking whack on their non-corporeal heads if I want …”

Who knows what God may or may not allow in the afterlife. Has it occurred to you that those who might really be deserving of a whack may not make it there with you, if God is really just?

“…It's all the more apparent that we need to fix or ameliorate many problems …”

Older generations of men can be some of your best allies in addressing many of the problems you’ve cited on this blog. We are not all clueless a-holes.

We may not have understood the long term generational effects of the social movements of our time such as feminism. It is only when younger men spoke up and I saw the rather callous response of many (not all) women to them did I swallow the red pill regarding feminism.

As bright as I perceive many in your generation to be none of you have a crystal ball to see 20-30 years down the road to understand the long term effects of whatever solutions you come up with to today’s problems.

Just keep in mind karma can bite your ass too.


Rasana said...

@ Grasshopper,

No, it hasn't occurred to me that some souls go to hell, because I don't believe in that concept. It's anathema to a concept of a infinitely loving Godhead. Only a oppressive temperamental image of a father-god would wish to punish his children this way.

God wouldn't want a part of Herself to leave, unless that part really wants to. Then it does, with blessing. And when it gets bored or sad, that part can return to the whole.


I don't discard the whole of past generations. Some can and may be allies to good causes. I discard most people, within a standard deviation (aka 66%), because they tolerated and were indifferent to unnecessary social suffering.

MOST people are clueless assholes, because they either hurt people and destroy things, or are passive bystanders.


I don't call for extremism or violence; that would incur karma and bad feels everywhere. We've seen what islamist, feminist, communist, nationalist, ______-ist extremism has done throughout recent history. I call for humility, concerned and heart-ful discussion and pragmatism. I don't claim to know it all, or the future, or repercussions of grand schemes.


It only takes one generational cycle to unveil the ill effects of the previous gen. Radical feminism's bile is easily seen before its first victims are even dead. As The Fifth Horseman has predicted, radical feminism lays its own self-defeating seeds, as others will outbreed them and their ideological poisons of doublespeak and omission.

That is plain to see, for the next 30 years. Even without a crystal ball. It remains to be seen if the future inheritors of this planet will wise up or go extremist again.

As I said: "In every era of history, the people of the day will deal with their own problems."

I only wish my descendents inherit a world with a few less problems than mine.

Grasshpper said...

OK I’ll let your post be the last word here Rasana. I can see this morphing into a debate about spiritual matters and there are other web sites more appropriate for that than this one.

ST’s focus here is gender relations issues and I think you got the points I was trying to make on that topic.