Monday, May 28, 2012

Hey baby, you look so familiar!

No, this is not the latest in the chat-up lines thrown at me, LOL.

I was thinking about the whole dating and courtship thing the other day.
I didn't come to any particularly useful conclusion, but I kind of got stuck a bit on the idea that it really is about the children.

The above is what I imagine parents might say to a newborn on first meeting them.

It's all about leaving behind our genetic mark.
Sure, we also want companionship, love, intimacy, etc.

But that's just the relish to get us to do Nature's bidding, no? :-)

And, at the risk of sounding like a typical Catholic prude (again :-), I can see why The Church is so unyielding on its teachings on sex and chastity.
For the cold hard truth is that those who partake of the relish without obliging Nature get indigestion.

And what's more, the gatekeeper of the relish is punished much more than the gatecrasher.

An ex-colleague of mine is now in her late forties. She has been pregnant three times in her life - all at very different stages in her life. Each time, she had an abortion. She is also 'catholic'. Which is why she was telling me all this, because she knew I was also catholic. I must say, I really like this woman. She is super nice and very good at her job too. Which is why I am sad at what follows:

She was lamenting the fact that she now can't have children.
For reasons of decorum, I really cannot go into the many reasons why I couldn't bring myself to sympathise with her. I really tried hard. But I could never 'get there'.
She is now living with a man 20 years her senior who has made it clear to her for the entire duration of their relationship that he doesn't want any more children, having completed his family with his ex-wife.

Bellita recently linked to an article about another woman who had had an abortion and was now living with the pain of it.
That woman, however could have elicited some compassion from me. She really could.
Except, further down the line she declared in her article that she would advise another woman to do what she did.
My hamster, which is normally primed to spin on behalf of any woman who merits even an iota of sympathy, just lay down and refused to move at this point.
My hamster went on strike. That doesn't happen very often.



Despite my strong views on abortion, I am however capable of sympathising. I know it is not an easy decision to make. Especially when one is young.
When I was 15, I returned home from school one day and met my neighbour's daughter (who was a few months younger than me) standing on her doorstep looking a bit 'lost'. I had never seen her like that before.
I approached her and asked if she was alright.
She looked at me and said, 'I just had an abortion'. Just like that.
She has never looked 'normal' to me ever since.
In her case, I totally sympathise. She was 14 years old.
How was she to know?


My strong views on abortion are somewhat selfish, yes.
They may be tied in with my christian beliefs and my own sense of human justice.
But...there is a reason I identify with Tim Tebow and St. Gianna Molla.
My own birth was fraught with difficulty, resulting in the death of my twin.
It was (sensible!) medical advice that we be aborted, for purely medical reasons.

So, with my history, I am somewhat unable to (not just unwilling to) agree with abortion for anything other than life-threatening conditions.
And even then...

Apparently Tim Tebow has a similar history to me.
And the daughter of St. Gianna Molla, who is now in her 60s still refers to her as 'my Saint Mama'!

It's all about the children, ultimately. I am not saying it is right. But it happens this way, yes.
What's more, whilst we don't get to choose our parents, we very much choose our children.
Um, most of the time.
'Accidental' pregnancies where the intended father is not quite the one based on reality are one exception.


Most of the time, we are subconciously choosing the qualities/traits of the next generation when we choose a mate, no?

My mother and all her sisters have one thing in common.
They are all very well-endowed :-)
Every single one of them.
Before I hit puberty, I assumed this was my future.
How wrong I was!

My father's sisters, on the other hand, are all tall, slim, model types, with no 'rack' to speak of between them. Even now, in their 60s and 70s, having nursed multiple babies, nothing's changed up top.

Women inherit their father's 'breasts'.
As a guide, look at his female relatives.
So guess who is unlucky in the 'rack' department?
:-)


I once dated a man who looked just like my father. Tall and thin.
His mother and sister looked just like my aunts (up top).
I commiserated with my future daughter.
But she won't make it into existence now.

When I met someone else, I was quick to check out the family. As he was orphaned and sisterless, I was out of luck with the 'assessment'.
However, a chance meeting with a (paternal) female cousin gave me all the 'evidence' I needed.

If I stick with this one, my daughter will be quite the man-magnet :-)
I shall definitely need to take Danny's advice and lock her up, for her 'epic rack'.



In general, men inherit their height from their mothers. With some exceptions, of course.
So my future son will not be short by any means, whoever his father is.
Men also inherit intelligence from their mothers.
Um...oh dear.
Sorry, future son :-(


Walking around on a sunny day and people-watching, I noticed a child of six or seven.
Stunning child.
I don't exaggerate when I say that my heart literally stopped beating for a second or two.
This child was half Asian. She was with Mum, so I know which parent is the Asian one.
It was a bit difficult to guess the ethnicity of father, though.
I suspect 'Caucasian' but the child was sufficiently dark-skinned that it wouldn't be unreasonable to guess 'Black' or 'Mixed' or 'Middle Eastern' or 'Indian'. In other words, Dad could have been any race but Asian (because the child looked like she was a mix, and not fully Asian).

Addendum:
The child reminded me of (but was even more beautiful than!) Chrissy Teigen, swimsuit model and  fiancĂ©e of singer John Legend:
Miss. Teigen has a Thai mother and a Norwegian father:



Anyhow, whoever Dad is, I hope he has a good sturdy padlock. If this kid is this beautiful at this age,  imagine how devastating she will be in ten years!

I also see little boys who are absolutely gorgeous. And then I think: if I have daughters I would have to lock them up, what with these little fellas about :-)
Or if my daughters are anything like me, they wouldn't be visual so much. So these boys would have to have their mouths duct-taped assuming they have nice voices...

Hm, in both cases why do I feel the need to lock up the girl? Am I being sexist, or just respectful of how Nature works?


I live in country where 70% of people have at least one foreign parent. And most of this 70% have a foreign mother.

Now of course it may appear that these foreign women are all South East Asian or African, but I suspect that's only because it is more obvious. With the other foreign mothers, they do not appear different until they speak and you detect an accent...and even so...not always evident.

It is a sticking-point in Blue Pill world, and a celebrated triumph :-) in The Manosphere that Western men seek 'non-Western' women for their femininity.
But is this the only reason?
Are these men looking for 'mixed' children too?

I always imagined that it is women who decide what the next generation will look like.
But the evidence around me tells me I could be wrong.

Sure, a woman is the gatekeeper of intimacy in the sense that she decides how far this will go (in the absence of influencing agents such as alcohol or drugs).
But, if a man is the gatekeeper of marriage/LTR, then in a sense, he gets to decide what his children will look like. Although, this is perhaps a theoretical 'decision' because of the possibility of cuckoldry.
But all things being equal, the principle of a man deciding still stands.
But then again, a savvy woman could place herself in the position of being 'picked' by the man she has already earmarked as her 'choice' without him ever realising this :-)
So in the end, both decide...



These are just a few examples I can come up with. Other people have a whole host of other traits they may be inadvertently or actively choosing or rejecting.

And that's just the physical.
In addition to physical traits, we are also choosing the personality types of our future children.
This is one reason the loss of a parent at a young age can be harrowing (and poignant) for the other parent left behind, who may recognise personality traits (and of course physical ones) displayed in the child.


And why it is best for a woman to really know a man well before indulging in any activity that may result in um...creating a carbon copy of him.

That is, if she is not into getting 'surprises'.

This whole phenomenon can work in a 'negative' way, too, I find.

I know a woman who is averse to dating anyone of her own race, nor anyone who is 'mixed' with her race.
It turns out she may have good reason, I have just worked out, from clues she has left for me in little conversations we have had over the years.
The root 'problem' for her is that her father...um...how shall I put this politely...'gets around'...
Her parents divorced amidst allegations ala Tiger Woods.
What's more, she discovered she suddenly had more relatives than she would have liked, some older, some younger than her. And everyone suspects there are many more undiscovered 'relatives' still waiting to be discovered.
She lives in mortal fear of accidentally dating her own brother.
Yes, her father was that active, sadly for her.
So whilst many girls 'seek their father' in a potential husband, this woman has a weird 'reverse Oedipus' thing going on.
In her case, it's a true phobia. I cannot seem to find the name to describe this one (anyone care to help me out here?)
By the way, I did point out to her, once I had figured out that this is what she was doing, that how could she know that her father hadn't had kids with a woman out of his race?
She told me her father was a racist (he never approved of the men she dated - not that she cared...)
I was about to say, 'But you know, just because he is 'racist' doesn't guarantee that he wouldn't...'
But I held my tongue. Not the time or place, I decided...
In any case she had that possibility covered - no 'mixed' men either...

So this woman, if she has children, will have 'mixed' children because of her (appropriate but perhaps excessive - because what are the chances*.?..) fear of incest.
For her, this has arisen out of a 'negative' rather than a 'positive', which is sad in many ways, unless she was perhaps always going to be attracted to men of different races anyway, and not because of her father's philandering. However, as her father's erm...'activities' came to light before she started dating, there is no way to tell.

So, my question is, how much of dating is really about the next generation in this ever more international, multicultural world?

Is the SMP a mini-eugenics laboratory?
These men who are after smart women - are they just seeking a smart child instead? 'Cos as the Manosphere keeps saying, 'who needs a smart woman'?
So, perhaps there is method in the madness ;)
And the short women seeking tall men - are they just looking for tall sons? And then it is a surprise if said son is not as tall as Dad?

Or do we just love the other one for who he or she is and don't ever think of the kids?
Can anyone convince me that this is true?





*Actually, thinking about this, the chances are not negligible. I wonder if she has read this article? I would hope that her father did not go this far, but you never know...
Small countries such as Singapore have started to ban sperm donor banks because of this fear. Somehow I don't blame them.
What a horror to finally meet someone you click with, are happy with, want to spend the rest of your life with...only to find he or she is your brother or sister!


Family album...spot the genetic trait!







30 comments:

just visiting said...

The sibling plight is something that I had to laugh at. My father had a lot of children, and I'm sure many I may not be aware of.

Earlier this year, I was contacted by a sibling who had recently found out he was adopted. A little older than me, he'd grown up in my home town. (Well, my home base of extended family. Mom was a bit of a gypsy.LOL) We'd attended the same schools, and our paths had crossed more than a few times.)

Spacetraveller said...

Oh JV,

I sympathise...
I must admit, I thought she (the woman I talk about) was overdoing her aversion to white men, because I thought there was virtually no chance of her actually meeting and dating her own brother. But I soon realised that part of the definition of a phobia is that it is irrational. And, in her case, she may have a point, actually. She once told me that every (white) man on the street she saw that was roughly in the age bracket of ten years above or below her age, she would wonder, 'could he be my brother?' And then she would convince herself that he looked like her!
That must be TERRIBLE! So I guess somewhere along the line, she decided she would nip this one in the bud and just avoid white men altogether...
You prove that this type of thing is not that rare...as you say, you and your brother, your paths crossed quite a bit.

There was that awful case in Sweden about the twins separated at birth who ended up marrying because by the time they found out they were related (twins, no less!), it was way too late and she was pregnant already...what a scary story!

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just visiting said...

Yikes. The Swedish story is scary. Though, I often wonder, with sperm banks and invitro, how often this is happening. The limit is suppossed to be 12 deposits but you hear about some guy who owns a clinic and 600 deposits later....

In the case of the adopted brother, I found out about him the summer before I turned 13. My father picked me up for a cross country road trip from this particular home town, and that's when he first told me about him. Makes me wonder if he knew about him living there.

metak said...

Even though the child's body/personality inherits some of fathers and mothers traits it always amazes me at the same time how completely different the child is from his parents.


"Or do we just love the other one for who he or she is and don't ever think of the kids?
Can anyone convince me that this is true?"


I can. Leave the children alone. :-)
Your hamster is on steroids again I'm afraid... :-) Your genetic material is not your prison!

What would Jesus say?
- I gave you a soul woman! ...and yet you still think in 3D...

just visiting said...

Metak , part of being a spiritual being having an earthly experience is to explore 3d reality. Without snobbery. Just as we should examine the primal and the divine that makes us human. Spending time in the divine and rejecting the primal or vice versa is to reject the experience.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Anonymous,
Thank you. Had a little difficulty understanding your comment beyond the first line...but anyhow, thanks.
The baby shoes on your website are cute.

@ JV,
In the Swedish story, the whole thing came out as a result of a joke someone made that they were both dark-haired in a country where most people are blond. So they were teased a lot as it was unusual to find two dark-haired people paired up...
People joked that they must be foreign, and related.
Turns out they weren't foreign, but they were related alright!
Strange but bizarrely true.
They had to ask permission from the king of Sweden to get married, as it was against the law of course. The king did give permission, after a lot of debate and head-scratching.
I think in the end what did it was the fact that she was pregnant. The horse had already bolted from the stable - no-one could do anything about that.

I can't find details of the Swedish case, but here is a similar (more recent) one from South Afica - almost identical, even including a pregnancy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057081/Engaged-couple-discover-brother-sister-parents-meet-days-wedding.html


@ Metak,

Jesus can't take part in this debate - he had the perfect genetic make-up. With an alpha father and the most feminine woman on Earth :-) So his point of view is null and void in this post. Only mere mortals can join in :-)

My hamster is back with a veangeance, yes, I won't deny that :-)

But don't I have a valid point here? Or rather, doesn't my hamster have a valid point?

I know plenty of men who would run away from a woman who has a genetically inheritable condition. And there are women who just wouldn't go near a man if he had a sibling with something that could be passed on.

Are you absolutely sure YOU would overlook a genetic trait you don't like in a woman, and not reject her on the basis of protecting your future children?
If you honestly can, then you should be called Saint Metak!

I would imagine everyone does this to some degree. And of course it depends on the trait/illness. People pick and choose what they like, so to speak. Different matter if they don't know what the other person has, but if they do, then they have to decide if they can handle it or not.

metak said...

@JV

My point was that you should newer forget who you really are (in fact you only need to remember). I didn't said nothing about rejecting anything. I just don't buy into that this 3D reality that I'm experiencing "is the real thing" if you know what I mean.
For me "the divine-as you said" is my "true nature so to speak" and my experience in this place and time is one among many....

But... let's just agree to disagree...

Maybe I should stop talking about religion on this blog because I'm in no way religious and those comments I wrote that include words like "God and Jesus" were just jokes. :-)

@Spacetraveller

There are always chances that something might go wrong. Some genetic disorders are passed down from parents' genes others are new (mutations).

"Most genetic disorders are quite rare and affect one person in every several thousands or millions."
from wikipedia

So as I see it you have far better chances of finding your "soul mate :-)" than genetic disorder for your child.

Looking at how complex the whole process of making a new human being and considering many important factors (family history, environment, food, toxins)... You can try to minimize the risk and you should do that but there are is no guarantee one way or the other.

p.s. - I already saw my future wife and she has qualities that I like (that long black hair...). There's also our mutant son that we love very much. :-)

dannyfrom504 said...

i have yet to meet a biracial woman who couldn't work part-time as a model.

Spacetraveller said...

@ Metak,

"p.s. - I already saw my future wife and she has qualities that I like (that long black hair...). There's also our mutant son that we love very much."

Hahaha! Killer punchline, Metak...
Interesting....another win for the dark-haired woman.
Any man into blondes round here?
:-)

@ Danny,

Yes I have noticed this too! It seems whatever two races are involved, the very fact that it is a mix seems to work very well...
certainly in the aesthetic sense...

Perhaps it is just the genetic diversity factor? It is surely the most efficient way Nature has of diversifying the gene pool of the human race...

@ JV,

Interestingly, in the article about sperm donation that I link to, a commenter there made the comment that it was reasons like this that she dated 'out of her race' - so another one who has made the conscious decision to avoid the possibility of accidental incest...perhaps she was conceived through the use of a donor, I don't know, but the effect on her is certainly like that of the woman I describe in the OP.

metak said...

@Spacetraveller

People do crazy shit! Having three abortions and then regretting the fact that she can't have children?

I'm sorry for what she went through... but at the same time life gave her what she wanted all along! Three times!!!!
When do you finally learn?

I think female body in western world is becoming increasingly angry with western women also. :-) The body tries to show her: look! look! I'm bleeding every month don't you get it? :-)

now I can drink my coffee in peace... :-)

Spacetraveller said...

Metak,

'Three' is nothing, apparently.
I found this article in a British newspaper.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149753/Teenage-girls-EIGHT-abortions-let-appalling-way-38-000-undergo-termination-single-year.html

I couldn't believe it...
The ages of these girls is shocking to say the least.
That is what is most upseting.
At least a grown woman is 'free' to make her own choices.
Is a girl of 13 even aware of what she is doing?

metak said...

@Spacetraveller

"Is a girl of 13 even aware of what she is doing?"

I don't know if she's aware or not but this kind of trauma at this young age..? WTF????

That's what happens when government replaces fathers and husbands... someone who would genuinely cared for the child is gone. Parents are working for a better part of the day and they have little time to spend with their children parenting them. That's not nearly enough if the child is public school indoctrination/brainwash prison!

Spacetraveller said...

@ Metak,

"That's what happens when government replaces fathers and husbands... someone who would genuinely cared for the child is gone."

Agreed.

(Although in this particular article there is no mention of the domestic/family situation of these girls...but you are right, there is plenty of evidence to suggest this link elsewhere).

metak said...

@Spacetraveller

If you put your child in public school he'll lose most of the values you taught him very quickly. He'll be taught that abortion is just a woman's choice and that she's only getting rid of few cells that are bothering her... he'll be trained like prisoner to obey authority and react to sound of the bell ringing. He won't be taught anything about life, it's beauty nor any respect or appreciation for what is good.

Long story short: He'll be screwed! :-)

just me ranting...

Spacetraveller said...

Metak,

I shall only consider catholic schools for my future children...

I understand your rant: it is why so many people decide to homeschool their kids.
But I don't think I have the capacity or the will to homeschool.

metak said...

@Spacetraveller

Prepare yourself for a shock... :-)
I went to Christian high school... :-)

The treatment is only somehow different...

Funny thing though... I've met a lot of atheists, kids that are interested in magic and practice it... not so many "real" Christians... :-)

p.s.- wait... I went in same school as Harry Potter?

Spacetraveller said...

Fair enough,

I do accept that even a catholic school is not without its problems...
Afterall, even in my extra-strict convent school, there were still girls getting pregnant.

But the problems are mitigated somewhat in a catholic school, for sure...

However, my job as a parent would be to be my child's first teacher, even if I am not homeschooling, so I would see it as my responsibility what their moral upbringing is, irrespective of the school.

metak said...

"However, my job as a parent would be to be my child's first teacher, even if I am not homeschooling, so I would see it as my responsibility what their moral upbringing is, irrespective of the school."

More rules and regulations you try to put on kids when they're young, will only encourage their need to "break free" from all that nonsense... A classmate of mine killed herself because apparently she couldn't take the all the pressure from parents and school...

Kids are inherently good, curious and want to learn... you just have to "hook them" with stories to spark their imagination and you won't be able to stop them... :-)

Spacetraveller said...

Metak,

"More rules and regulations you try to put on kids when they're young, will only encourage their need to "break free" from all that nonsense..."

Yes, I know what you mean...
I'd like to think I would be a strict parent, but not an overly strict one.
Fully recognising that it would be in fact counterproductive.

"Kids are inherently good, curious and want to learn... you just have to "hook them" with stories to spark their imagination..."

You took these words right out of my mouth. I am a huge fan of engaging the imagination of children. I learned this trick as a babysitter and I have never forgotten it...

You and I have the same idea of parenting style...

Bellita said...

@ JV
The limit is suppossed to be 12 deposits but you hear about some guy who owns a clinic and 600 deposits later....

Coincidentally, I just found out that the children's novelist Eva Ibbotson had such a father. He ran a sperm bank which guaranteed only "high IQ" donors. After his death, it was revealed that he himself had made two-thirds of all donations! Tests have not been carried out on all the children conceived through his "clinic," but the estimate is that he fathered 300 to 600 children.

This is one cost of sperm donation that gets drowned out when people moan about having "compassion" for infertile couples who just want a child.

Bellita said...

@ST and @Metak
You and I have the same idea of parenting style...

Hmmmm! Is anyone thinking what I'm thinking? ;-)

Bellita said...

ST, the story of your ex-colleague is more common than you may think. But not as common as the cases of women who take oral birth control for several years and then have trouble having children later. Yet neither group ever makes the connection between past decisions and present heartache.

In other news, a friend of mine had to have an ovary removed several years ago because of a cyst. That was in her mid-twenties. Since the operation, every time she visits her gynecologist (who is also an obstetrician), she is asked, "Why aren't you pregnant yet???" Apparently, that doctor badgers all the young women who are her patients to have babies while they can . . . because the older ladies she treats all invariably come to her because of infertility. And she doesn't want the first group to turn into the second group.

Bellita said...

@ST
I live in country where 70% of people have at least one foreign parent. And most of this 70% have a foreign mother.

This is so interesting to me, because I recall that you live in _____. (Not mentioning it in case it's private.) And the international word on this country is that it's not very friendly to foreigners. But perhaps my sources are out of date.

On the other hand, this isn't very surprising, considering the country's geographic location and ethnic history.

In general, men inherit their height from their mothers. With some exceptions, of course.

In that case, I should start a perpetual novena to St. Rita, with the intention of my sons being the exceptions! ;-)

Are these men looking for 'mixed' children too?

There is actually significant overlap between some of the older Manosphere bloggers (Roissy, Ferd, etc.) and the Human Biodiversity bloggers. This isn't surprising after you recall that both groups are writing in response to a society that seems to be spiralling downwards. But if the former seem to be saying that marrying foreign women is the key, the latter are adamant that white cultures should remain as white as possible. (Then again, if the women are foreign and white, then there shouldn't be a problem.)

In general, though, I think that people would be happy to marry someone of a shared cultural and ethnic background, and only look "abroad" out of desperation . . . or if they happen to have jobs that keep them in other countries for a very long time. Having said that, I have a friend who loves to say about mixed couples, "Exotic means erotic." People who are very different from us will always evoke a sense of romance that people who are very like us never could.

Spacetraveller said...

Bellita,

I just wandered onto your blog and even though I knew this was coming...

I am very sorry to see 'Blogging Bellita' go. I shall miss the humour, education (who else is going to educate me on Greek mythology?!) and food (thanks to you I now know what steak is, and potatoes too :-)

I loved your latest post on the conclusion of the story about Bellita and Johnny. No Hollywood balderdash, just a great story with a useful moral, much like the faiytales we all grew up with. One reason I miss Olive's blog is precisely becase she was so good at dissecting these fairytales for us!

At the risk of being a cry-baby about this, I say 'thanks for the memories' and I shall miss your blog!

About the sperm donor thing, I think although I sympathise with the many people going through the pain of infertility, I kinda see your point.
I once saw a documentary about a fertility doctor who was using his own erm...'material' for his work. I wonder if it is the same man you mention? Forget his name...

"Hmmmm! Is anyone thinking what I'm thinking? ;-)"

Oh no! I see now how clumsy was the way I phrased my comment to Metak. Funny how I didn't see this before. Hahaha!

This reminds me of the time when on Lost's blog, I happened to mention that as my own grandfather smoked a pipe, I would love for my granddaughter to have that memory of her grandfather one day...and Lost's reply of 'if your granddaughter were my granddaughter she would know the smell of pipesmoke...' had me confused for a bit before it finally clicked as to what it implied!

Which reminds me how 'slow' I can be sometimes :-)

So please say one for me in your Novena to St. Rita of Cascia that my future son gets only one out of 'tall and slow'. (I am trusting you to pick the right one, Bell).
:-)

About my ex-colleague, the poor woman is really a tortured soul now (understandably so perhaps). I think she has come to terms with the fact that she will never be a (biological) mother - something that I already sympathise with. But I also think she has come to connect her abortions (past decisions) with her present predicament. In many ways she was using me as her confessor when she told me about her abortions. But I am afraid I was the totally wrong person for that job. To my eternal shame, I could not feel the sympathy I should have felt for her, and worse, I fear she may have noticed this because I am generally told that I have a very expressive face, so I am unable to hide my true feelings about anything.
But what can I say, Bell?
At the risk of making you my confessor now, whilst she was telling me about her abortions, all I could think of was how it could have been me being aborted. And in my own case, had I been aborted it would have been perfectly justified given it would have been done on medical grounds to save (maternal) life.
She wasn't to know my history. And how on Earth could I tell her? It would have added to her pain.
And I could see she was suffering enough...

And about The Pill...
I shouldn't even go there...

I shall never forget attending the autopsy of a 22-year old woman who had suffered a fatal lung clot as a direct result of The Pill.
Having just informed her widowed mother of her death.
Now, one might argue that sure, she could have suffered the same complication from pregnancy.
Am I splitting hairs if I debate with myself whether a 'maternal mortality' is somehow nobler than 'oh she died from taking The Pill'?
Perhaps yes.
A death is a death is a death afterall...
No more nobility or lack thereof.
Just grief.

How the generations of women since the 1960s have been lied to so!

Spacetraveller said...

Bell,

"In other news, a friend of mine had to have an ovary removed several years ago because of a cyst. That was in her mid-twenties. Since the operation, every time she visits her gynaecologist (who is also an obstetrician), she is asked, "Why aren't you pregnant yet???""

In my humble opinion, the gynaecologist is a good person, and a good doctor.
Reading this made me realise that there is a third group in my last comment to you that I failed to mention, but not necessarily because I forgot this group ;)
Omission by intent if ever there was one!
This group, who are neither partaking of the 'relish' nor doing Nature's will, but are nonetheless getting older...
Gynaecologists ask this group the same (helpful but somewhat intrusive) question every year too.
:-)
This group is not getting 'indigestion' as described in the OP, because its members are are not 'eating'. Whilst they may not be 'hungry' could they nonetheless be described as 'malnourished'?
I shall stop here as my cryptic use of euphemisms is getting rather absurd :-)

"This is so interesting to me, because I recall that you live in _____. (Not mentioning it in case it's private.)"

Actually, Bell, I think I have mentioned elsewhere the country I live in, and I may have inadvertently dropped several clues anyway in the course of the lifespan of this blog. So it should not be a secret, I guess.
I live in Switzerland.

Now whilst your intel on this country's xenophobia may be true on a political level, I am afraid on an interpersonal level...
:-)

Which is why when the other woman I mention in the OP said something about her father's 'racism', I failed to see how that (if it were true) was mutually exclusive with the possibility of her having a mixed sibling from him.
If there is one thing I have learned in this life Bell, it is that 'human beings are funny creatures...'
And again I stop here :-)

Now you mention Switzerland's ethnic history...

I am sure you know there is a French, German and Italian part.
The French part is actually known for its intrinsically diverse genetic history, a feature which is quite independent of its more recent 70% mixed parentage thing.
This is because the Suisse Romande (french-speaking Swiss) mostly have North African ancestry and are usually darker-skinned compared to the other Swiss...In contrast, the Swiss Italians are usually blond, like the northen (Italian) Italians and of course the Swiss Germans, and in contrast to southern Italian Italians who are also dark...
And there is a specific mountain population on the German-speaking side who have Mongolian ancestry, so basically they look 'Asian'.
So there is a lot of variation even amongst the 'indigenous' Swiss...
Which is added to by the disproportionately high number of 'mixed' marriages compared to the rest of Europe.

"Exotic means erotic."

Yes. I agree. And 70% of Swiss men also agree :-)

Bellita said...

@ST
I just wandered onto your blog and even though I knew this was coming...

I keep forgetting to ask you to make a Wordpress account so that I can transfer my blog--well, your blog now. I was going to make you one myself and just tell you the user name and password, but I thought you might want to do it yourself.

whilst she was telling me about her abortions, all I could think of was how it could have been me being aborted.

I understand completely. My mother had me when she was still a college student and faced a lot of pressure to have me "dealt with" quietly. (Abortion is illegal in the Philippines, as is only right, but there have always been people who will do anything for money and young women who think they have no other recourse.) Just imagine if my mother had made the other choice . . .

When I was in college, one of my roommates got pregnant and thought about having an abortion. I campaigned passionately for her unborn child (praying all the while that I wasn't coming across as a religious fundamentalist), and I was so relieved when she decided to have her baby in the end.

A few months after her daughter was born, I met the whole family (my former roommate, her fiance, and the baby) for tea. And of course I asked to hold the child. My friend handed her over and I cuddled her for a while . . . Then my friend remarked, "You know, Bellita, she always cries with strangers, but she's meeting you for the first time and she looks happy!" I like to think the baby "recognized" me as someone who had prayed for her . . . but it might have also been a coincidence.

It has just occurred to me that if my former roommate had had an abortion, I wouldn't have spoken to her again. Not "to shame" her, as the Manosphere would say, but because it would have been too painful for me.

But I hope your ex-colleague has found someone who was able to help her seek forgiveness.

In my humble opinion, the gynaecologist is a good person, and a good doctor.

Oh, yes! I agree! In fact, after I wrote that, I wondered if I should add a sentence or two to explain that such personal comments are perfectly acceptable from doctors in the Philippines. :P There is still a professional line, of course, but this doctor hasn't crossed it, and my friend always tells this story with a laugh.

Now whilst your intel on this country's xenophobia may be true on a political level, I am afraid on an interpersonal level...
:-)


Thank you for explaining, ST! My "intel" was not worthy of the name! ;)

Spacetraveller said...

Bell,

"I keep forgetting to ask you to make a Wordpress account..."

Please do it for me?
So I can prolong the feeling that you are still there at 'Blogging Bellita'!
It helps me :-)
(Not very mature, I know, but there we are...)

"Just imagine if my mother had made the other choice..."

Yup, I feel ya on this one.
And I can't help thinking there are unborn souls out there somewhere saying 'How I wish my mother had made the other choice' if they could speak...but of course they can't - for they don't exist. But I guess their spirits live on?
Bell, do you know what happens to the soul of a child who is unborn and therefore never baptised?
Is there teaching on this?
(You know I rely on you to provide the catechism I clearly lack...)
:-)

"Not "to shame" her, as the Manosphere would say, but because it would have been too painful for me."

Again I feel ya on this one.
And I suspect had this happened, she may well have felt that you were indeed shaming her. Which, seen from her own point of view, would have been a reasonable interpretation of your action. But nonetheless wrong.
My ex-colleague talking abortion to me was causing me pain, and then I also felt the pain of causing her pain by virtue of my apparent lack of sympathy for her at a time when she did indeed need sympathy...
Pain all round...
Sometimes I just wish she had never talked to me about it...

"I like to think the baby "recognized" me as someone who had prayed for her..."

This is beautiful. I am sure she did!

"I wondered if I should add a sentence or two to explain that such personal comments are perfectly acceptable from doctors in the Philippines."

They are acceptable everywhere...um...even if sometimes unwelcome!
:P
(But only because a woman cannot just 'get pregnant' by herself...first she has to meet someone suitable... :-)
I guess the doctor is the least annoying of them all though, huh? So-called well-intentioned family and friends are much worse!
(I'd fire them all if I could *grin*)

"Thank you for explaining, ST!"

You're welcome.
To my shame I had no idea of this history of Switzerland before I came here.
I remember when I first met my boss' wife and she proudly declared she was 100% Swiss, I just thought, how odd that she should see this as some sort of badge of distinction!
Until I realised, it really is a rarity here, so she was right to make a big deal of it!
Of course she has gone and ruined the perfect record for her kids because my boss is not 100% Swiss...
:-)

Bellita said...

@ST
Bell, do you know what happens to the soul of a child who is unborn and therefore never baptised?

No, I don't . . . because nobody does! :P But we can have faith that God had mercy on them and called them to Him in Heaven. The Holy Innocents were never baptized, and they are among the saints.

Limbo is a popular theory of the afterlife. Some theologians made convincing arguments for limbo as the eternal home of unbaptized babies and noble heathens, but it was never a dogma. And personally, I never cared for it. If Mary loves to sneak souls in by the backdoor (as we like to say--to the horror of our Protestant friends!), then she must really love sneaking the infant souls in. But this is just my own theory now, and I'm not a theologian! ;)

I guess the doctor is the least annoying of them all though, huh? So-called well-intentioned family and friends are much worse!

Oh, I know exactly what you mean . . . and so does my friend! The doctor is not half as bad as her own father, who recently told her, "It's all right with me if you never marry. If you find a nice man you can live with, I will accept that and be happy for you." And immediately after, he turned to her younger sister and said, "But not you. You're too pretty not to marry properly!" Can you imagine???

Quite the "neg" from your own father, don't you think? :P But he didn't mean to be malicious. He really wants all his daughters to find life partners and be mothers, preferably while he is still alive to share that joy with them.

Spacetraveller said...

Dad, you're fired!

:-)